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Valued Contributor
RyVision
Posts: 1,346
Registered: ‎04-15-2011
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Re: Other Lenders and Amex Backdating

oh lord.......  :smileyindifferent:

Valued Contributor
bs6054
Posts: 1,673
Registered: ‎11-11-2012
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Re: Other Lenders and Amex Backdating


RyVision wrote:

oh lord.......  :smileyindifferent:


OK, but I really want to know what you mean by:

 

However, other cards are not able to backdate like AMEX does, AMEX has members vs card holders and are uniquely grandfathered in under banking rules to do this

 

What are the grandfathered banking rules?

Valued Contributor
RyVision
Posts: 1,346
Registered: ‎04-15-2011
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Re: Other Lenders and Amex Backdating


bs6054 wrote:

RyVision wrote:

oh lord.......  :smileyindifferent:


OK, but I really want to know what you mean by:

 

However, other cards are not able to backdate like AMEX does, AMEX has members vs card holders and are uniquely grandfathered in under banking rules to do this

 

What are the grandfathered banking rules?


It's not the banking rules that are grandfathered, it's American Express's travel\finance business model that's grandfathered.  They were the only company that granted charge accounts to clients using their travel services.  This was after they were the ONLY financial company to accept letters of credit in 1914 when:  

"The beginning of World War I forced American Express into the travel services businesses. More than 150,000 Americans were stranded in Europe in 1914 at the outbreak of the Great War. These citizens flocked to the offices of American Express seeking funds after other European banks refused to honor their American letters of credit. American Express honored these letters of credit in full, which allowed American citizens to fund their passages back home." (quoted from creditcards.com being I didn't wish to type that much).


American Express is the only company with this type of history and it's original members were just that "Members", and still are today.  No other company is, or was, operated that way, and being AMEX did so before any of the banking rules governing something like "backdating" they are grandfathered in to offer their members that privilege.  Being they originally, and always, referred to their clients as members (never credit card holders) AMEX retains that uniqueness.  If you research deep enough you can find the obvious differences and time frames to explain to your satisfaction.  As long as they don't change their charge (original) and credit (newer and under the charge\finance group) operations, they'll retain that unique, grandfathered in privilege.
 

Senior Contributor
Open123
Posts: 4,115
Registered: ‎02-23-2011
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Re: Other Lenders and Amex Backdating


RyVision wrote:

bs6054 wrote:

RyVision wrote:

oh lord.......  :smileyindifferent:


OK, but I really want to know what you mean by:

 

However, other cards are not able to backdate like AMEX does, AMEX has members vs card holders and are uniquely grandfathered in under banking rules to do this

 

What are the grandfathered banking rules?


It's not the banking rules that are grandfathered, it's American Express's travel\finance business model that's grandfathered.  They were the only company that granted charge accounts to clients using their travel services.  This was after they were the ONLY financial company to accept letters of credit in 1914 when:  

"The beginning of World War I forced American Express into the travel services businesses. More than 150,000 Americans were stranded in Europe in 1914 at the outbreak of the Great War. These citizens flocked to the offices of American Express seeking funds after other European banks refused to honor their American letters of credit. American Express honored these letters of credit in full, which allowed American citizens to fund their passages back home." (quoted from creditcards.com being I didn't wish to type that much).


I always suspected Amex was "grandfathered" in some way, but didn't know the details.  Just as many things are grandfathered, such as UPS/FedEx services liability is only $100 for interstate commerce (regardless of fault if no additional insurance is purchased) grandfathered by the Carmack Amendment (whose purpose and reason I won't go into here).

The phrase "never leave home withou it," is historically Amex treasts their "American" holders better than anyone else.  For example, the criteria in other countries for Amex cards are much higher, and their controls much more strict.  The Amex Platinum (easily attained by anyone in America) is by invitation only in most countries.  Their T&C about not being able to transfer MR points to a third party account is tightly enforced abroad where accounts are summarily closed for violating this policy, but is *never* enforced in America.

 

Historically, Amex has always treated their American card holders much better than foreign ones, just as JCB treats their Japanese cardholders much better than they do others.

 

Not meant to be political, but as an American with an American firm who does business abroad, I would never leave home without an Amex these days.  I want my vendors/clients abroad to see we are an American firm, and Amex is as uniquely American as it gets. 

 

In the end (irrespective of all their faults), when abroad there is no issuer I have more faith in to "bail" me out when necessary, as illusrated in the 1914 example.  Aside from the value of rewards and new fangled points gathering, travel related services is still the higest value for a charge/credit card, which is the history and foundation on which American Express has been founded, and stay true to today.

Senior Contributor
Wolf3
Posts: 3,198
Registered: ‎01-24-2010
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Re: Other Lenders and Amex Backdating


indiolatino61 wrote:

Hello All...my question is about Amex's backdating and other lenders. Do other lenders take into account that Amex may have backdated you when they see a very long age of account? For example, my AAoA went from 4 months to 4 years and 5 months when Amex reported an account date of 1988. Do they still see your much higher AAoA the same as a "true" AAoA without an Amex backdate? Thanks.


They don't see the change so they don't know it is much higher.    Like Utilizaiton, there is no history of your AAoA calculations.

Valued Contributor
bs6054
Posts: 1,673
Registered: ‎11-11-2012
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Re: Other Lenders and Amex Backdating

[ Edited ]

Just looking at my Citi Forward card (not the most prestigious card!).  It says "Member Since 12"   (So I guess Amex weren't able to trademark this!).   Which suggests the "Member" distinction isn't that critical, especially as I really AM a member of say Penfed, which I actually had to pay a special, identified fee to "join", and people really are members of other credit unions, many of which also issue cards.

 

So, I am still not sure why Amex (and apparently Macy's) seem to be the sole backdaters, whether this is by some sort of law, policies by the CRAs, or just decisions by the issuers not to do this (although it would be surprising if at least one or two wouldn't choose to do this if they easily could).

 

Edit: Hadn't even seem this before!  On my Penfed card, it says "Cardholder since .." which really seems the wrong way round (I am a member of Penfed in some sense, and not a member of Citi at all, just a cardholder)

Senior Contributor
Open123
Posts: 4,115
Registered: ‎02-23-2011
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Re: Other Lenders and Amex Backdating


bs6054 wrote:

Just looking at my Citi Forward card (not the most prestigious card!).  It says "Member Since 12"   (So I guess Amex weren't able to trademark this!).   Which suggests the "Member" distinction isn't that critical, especially as I really AM a member of say Penfed, which I actually had to pay a special, identified fee to "join", and people really are members of other credit unions, many of which also issue cards.

 

So, I am still not sure why Amex (and apparently Macy's) seem to be the sole backdaters, whether this is by some sort of law, policies by the CRAs, or just decisions by the issuers not to do this (although it would be surprising if at least one or two wouldn't choose to do this if they easily could).

 

Edit: Hadn't even seem this before!  On my Penfed card, it says "Cardholder since .." which really seems the wrong way round (I am a member of Penfed in some sense, and not a member of Citi at all, just a cardholder)


I was wondered about it too.

 

I've always been curious why *only* Amex (or, Macy's in this case too) can backdate, while no else can.  I assume if others could, they would too.  In this case, Amex does indeed have a competitive advantage over everyone else.

Regular Contributor
Bay_Area_Joe
Posts: 243
Registered: ‎10-05-2012
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Re: Other Lenders and Amex Backdating

What is interesting to me is that on a report directly from Equifax, my backdated Amex which I got Jan 2013, but original member date of Jan 1991, shows 81 months of payment history on that report. Showing payments made since Jun of 2006.

 

But, the Equifax MyFico report does not indicate that 81 month payment history, but only two months.

 

Regardless I feel fortunate to have been a member that long, I got my original green card when I was just 23 years old.  Fast forward all these years later and thanks to Amex my oldest account is now over 22 years old.

 

I am going for a revolver here in next day or two.

 

Thanks to the forum.

 

 

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Valued Contributor
RyVision
Posts: 1,346
Registered: ‎04-15-2011
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Re: Other Lenders and Amex Backdating


bs6054 wrote:

Just looking at my Citi Forward card (not the most prestigious card!).  It says "Member Since 12"   (So I guess Amex weren't able to trademark this!).   Which suggests the "Member" distinction isn't that critical, especially as I really AM a member of say Penfed, which I actually had to pay a special, identified fee to "join", and people really are members of other credit unions, many of which also issue cards.

 

So, I am still not sure why Amex (and apparently Macy's) seem to be the sole backdaters, whether this is by some sort of law, policies by the CRAs, or just decisions by the issuers not to do this (although it would be surprising if at least one or two wouldn't choose to do this if they easily could).

 

Edit: Hadn't even seem this before!  On my Penfed card, it says "Cardholder since .." which really seems the wrong way round (I am a member of Penfed in some sense, and not a member of Citi at all, just a cardholder)


 

Neither Citi nor PenFed (both of which I have as well) have the history, in finance or travel services (let alone combined) that AMEX has (that I mentioned earlier).  I also never said AMEX "trademarked" the term "Member"....   How is this going over anyone's head?  My discover also says "Member Since"  though the law doesn't allow them (or any other lender) to back date the account to the original date of issue.  No one else has ever stated "Membership" privilege the way AMEX did. You will also notice not a single lender ever calls you a "Card Member"....

Valued Contributor
bs6054
Posts: 1,673
Registered: ‎11-11-2012
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Re: Other Lenders and Amex Backdating


RyVision wrote:

bs6054 wrote:

Just looking at my Citi Forward card (not the most prestigious card!).  It says "Member Since 12"   (So I guess Amex weren't able to trademark this!).   Which suggests the "Member" distinction isn't that critical, especially as I really AM a member of say Penfed, which I actually had to pay a special, identified fee to "join", and people really are members of other credit unions, many of which also issue cards.

 

So, I am still not sure why Amex (and apparently Macy's) seem to be the sole backdaters, whether this is by some sort of law, policies by the CRAs, or just decisions by the issuers not to do this (although it would be surprising if at least one or two wouldn't choose to do this if they easily could).

 

Edit: Hadn't even seem this before!  On my Penfed card, it says "Cardholder since .." which really seems the wrong way round (I am a member of Penfed in some sense, and not a member of Citi at all, just a cardholder)


 

Neither Citi nor PenFed (both of which I have as well) have the history, in finance or travel services (let alone combined) that AMEX has (that I mentioned earlier).  I also never said AMEX "trademarked" the term "Member"....   How is this going over anyone's head?  My discover also says "Member Since"  though the law doesn't allow them (or any other lender) to back date the account to the original date of issue.  No one else has ever stated "Membership" privilege the way AMEX did. You will also notice not a single lender ever calls you a "Card Member"....


 

Sorry, I never meant to imply that you said about tradmarking, just my observation.  But your earlier post suggested that being a Member of Amex (as compared to  a cardholder) was an important distinction, and the fact that other vendors use these terms makes that argument less strong (IMO opinion of course).  But back to the central point:

 

My discover also says "Member Since"  though the law doesn't allow them (or any other lender) to back date the account to the original date of issue.

 


What law is this?  A Federal credit reporting law?


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