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PIF all the time...really?

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teenastie
Established Contributor

Re: PIF all the time...really?


@Anonymous wrote:

@teenastie wrote:

I can't say that I PIF every month. But I have set a goal to not pay a dime of interest nor pay any overdraft, late fees for 2012. I can say this because I honestly don't have much in available CL. I AM currently carrying a balance on a 0% BT. Everything else goes on a charge except for gas on my revolver. 2 years ago DW and I spent 3K in overdraft fees and countless more in Late payments and CC interest (very very dark time). I haven't paid interest in 8 months and I do not want to go back! 



Wow Smiley Surprised I don't think I've spent even 10% of that in fees and interest in my whole life.  Glad you're better off now, overdraft fees and late payments are really the worst, since you're just wasting money for absolutely no reason. And that generally only digs people deeper into a hole.


Believe it or not having to pull myself out of that hole with cash advances, better financial planning ect is the basis for how I use my Charge Card. I frequently refer to my Amex Charges as glorified cash advances with benefits Smiley Happy



Message 21 of 73
haulingthescoreup
Moderator Emerita

Re: PIF all the time...really?

Oh, and by the way, I do agree with OP on this: I take everything that I read here with a 26-ounce box of Morton's salt.   I've read claims that I know were flat-out lies.

 

I've never understand why people would lie when they're anonymous. I mean, what is the point?? But they most certainly do.

 

(btw, I knew that they were lies because people used to post links to their Scorewatch graphs showing their scores. They didn't realize that the linked graphs were live and kept updating happily away, displaying their actual current scores that were sometimes - ahem - quite different from the ones that were being claimed. Mods do NOT have access to your scores, reports, etc.)

* Credit is a wonderful servant, but a terrible master. * Who's the boss --you or your credit?
FICO's: EQ 781 - TU 793 - EX 779 (from PSECU) - Done credit hunting; having fun with credit gardening. - EQ 590 on 5/14/2007
Message 22 of 73
Anonymous
Not applicable

Re: PIF all the time...really?

While it's possible that some people are taking liberties with the truth (eh, it's the internet, it's an inevitability), the world that we live in today can also easily explain how large sums can be PIFd every month, with the "average" (whatever that mean for the region that you live in) income.

 

The Budget vs. Rewards Game:

Almost every 'everyday' expenditure can be paid with a credit card nowadays. When you add up those costs (even rent, in some scenarios, can be charged these days), the utilties, the cable, cell phones, insurance, the groceries, gas, lawn & garden maintenance, pest control (hey, don't judge... have you ever seen a wolf spider?!? {{shudder}}... ya just gotta love the previously rural 'burbs), club/membership fees, service charges (e.g. monthly parking), and "lessons" for the children. All of these things, built into the monthly budget, and previously paid for by check, can now be paid for by credit card. And, for the average household these days, this easily adds up to *more* than a thousand dollars. But, this is $$$ that you were going to pay out, no matter what-- so, this is $$$ that is very likely in the bank. If you charge these things, you definitely don't want to pay interest on them. And, charging them, in the rewards game, will net you a profit!

 

The World is Changing the Workplace Too:

Good, bad, or indifferent, work isn't what it used to be. A lot of people, even lower level, entry-level positions require some degree of travel these days. It used to be, to be a traveler, that you had reached an upper managerial or sales position, but that is far, faaaaar from the case these days. Domestic companies have gone global, and a great many people (just look at the IT sector) are contractors in some regard. Travel is a given. This is a cost that easily hit $10k or more per month for some, but probably 2 to 5k is average.

 

In addition to traveling, a lot of companies have gone virtual, and encourage telecommuting. Aaah... the joys of working from home. But, with that comes the lack of ability to walk over to the next department to get something, or get your laptop fixed. Instead, you pay the costs of shipping, or maintenance, or acquiring some new software, or other types of products, and you get reimbursed. You pay whatever the cost is to delight the customer, and you submit an expense report to your company. Depending on your industry and area of expertise, this can add up... for your company.

 

Occasional Expenses and Auto Savings/Deductions Add to the Rewards Game:

As people get wise to how to maximize rewards, things that we used to have savings/funds/reimbursement accounts for can be leveraged to gain maximum rewards. And these can be some pretty big bills! Some examples:

 

  • Is your home PIF'd? Great, but you've still got property taxes to the tune of several thousand per year. You can pay them with a credit card, then PIF from your property tax funds set aside.
  • Do you have a flexible spending account for healthcare, and/or daycare? Pay the orthopedist or the daycare with your credit card, then get reimbursed to PIF.
  • School Tuition + Financial Aid? Pay with a credit card, get reimbursed, PIF.
  • Educational Trusts for your Children? Save, charge, PIF.

Plain old Savings:

Finally, some people really, really, REALLY don't want to pay interest, and have made a sport out of 'credit card arbitrage'. Save for that new washer, iPad, or marble mantle that you want, charge it and PIF to garner the rewards, OR, stick the cash in a high(er/ish) interest bearing account during your 0% promotional period, gain rewards and interest, then PIF. People save for trips, their wedding, big ticket items, home remodels/repairs, new cars, cosmetic surgery, etc... All things that tend to result in a hefty bill, and then PIF with the money that they'd stashed away over time.

 

My point is that, in a forum post, "I ran $8k through my card last month, and $17k in the last three months" can give the impression of "big spender" or "wannabe big spender"  when it might very well "quite normal" spending. It seems like a lot... it is a LOT, but in a lot of scenarios, it's easily explained given the nature of financial transactions in the world we live in now.

 

Are most people being deceptive... I actually doubt it. Why? A good many people (myself included) arrived in the forums with the mindset to never, ever, EVER go back to the place of finacial dead-brainedness that we came from. And, not charging more than you can pay, without regard to how the numbers were arrived at, is now a way of life. In a forum of people obsessed with credit, as we are, the concentrated nature of the claims can definitely make it seem outrageous. But, we're a unique group here whose credit obsessions truly know no boudaries. Smiley Tongue

Message 23 of 73
tinuviel
Moderator Emeritus

Re: PIF all the time...really?


@teenastie wrote:

I can't say that I PIF every month. But I have set a goal to not pay a dime of interest nor pay any overdraft, late fees for 2012. I can say this because I honestly don't have much in available CL. I AM currently carrying a balance on a 0% BT. Everything else goes on a charge except for gas on my revolver. 2 years ago DW and I spent 3K in overdraft fees and countless more in Late payments and CC interest (very very dark time). I haven't paid interest in 8 months and I do not want to go back! 



I've been there myself. Glad to be past all of that, and I'm happy that you've gotten past it, as well.


Current Scores: EQ 775 (03/04/2014), EX 756 (03/01/2014), TU 760 (03/01/2014)
Ruby Spade Garden Club Member - Last App: 03/04/2013 - No apps until 2014
Cards: Cap1 Venture 6.4k, Cap1 Quicksilver MC 1.75k, BankAmericard 1-2-3 Visa Signature - UCF Alumni Association 5k, Discover 7k, Citi Diamond Preferred MC 10.35k, Wells Fargo Rewards Visa 7k, Chase Freedom 5k, Chase Ink 7.5k, Amex Green NPSL, Dillard's Amex 7.5k, JC Penney 7.5k, Kay Jeweler's 5.1k
Message 24 of 73
tinuviel
Moderator Emeritus

Re: PIF all the time...really?


@haulingthescoreup wrote:

@teenastie wrote:

@Anonymous wrote:

@teenastie wrote:

I can't say that I PIF every month. But I have set a goal to not pay a dime of interest nor pay any overdraft, late fees for 2012. I can say this because I honestly don't have much in available CL. I AM currently carrying a balance on a 0% BT. Everything else goes on a charge except for gas on my revolver. 2 years ago DW and I spent 3K in overdraft fees and countless more in Late payments and CC interest (very very dark time). I haven't paid interest in 8 months and I do not want to go back! 



Wow Smiley Surprised I don't think I've spent even 10% of that in fees and interest in my whole life.  Glad you're better off now, overdraft fees and late payments are really the worst, since you're just wasting money for absolutely no reason. And that generally only digs people deeper into a hole.


I kid you not... it got to the point that DW and I would go to the gas station together and get as much gas that we could on 1 swipe to try to reduce the amount of overdraft fees. Smiley Sad


Yep, nearly all of us have some dark days in our pasts. Smiley Tongue Thumbs up to you and your DW for coming out of yours.

 

FWIW though, I do PIF every month.

 

I guess maybe the reason that it's not hard for me to do is because I only use CC's for things that I would buy anyway, and that I have budgeted for. So the money is already there. I just use plastic for everyday expenses. I'm not a big shopper, and you can pretty much hear me whining all the way to the mall when I do have to break down and get some more work clothes or other exciting stuff.

 

The one exception is that I have a 0% / $0 BT on a Navy card. I have a HELOC for home improvements on the house that I still (ahem) own with DXH, and I'm knocking the balance down with 0% instead of the 2-point-something% on the actual HELOC. This really was a HELOC for home improvements and repairs, not for paying off old CC debt. If we had sold the house two years ago, as was supposed to happen, it would have been long gone.



Same here. The one good thing that came out of digging myself into a hole and maxing out my cards is that, with no available credit left, I had to learn how to rein in my spending. At that point, I was using my debit card for plastic, so it forced me to live within my means. Now that all of my cards are paid off and I have ample available credit for my needs, I'm treating the credit cards like debit cards and only using them to tender payment for things that I would be purchasing anyway.

 

That being said, I do understand that sometimes it may become necessary to make a larger purchase than what is typical and it might be desireable to pay it off over a few months. I don't think that this is bad so long as it doesn't become a habit. Otherwise, the hole can just get deeper and deeper. It's important to have a certain amount of fiscal discipline. But, emergencies can happen and being able to float a balance can be a big help.


Current Scores: EQ 775 (03/04/2014), EX 756 (03/01/2014), TU 760 (03/01/2014)
Ruby Spade Garden Club Member - Last App: 03/04/2013 - No apps until 2014
Cards: Cap1 Venture 6.4k, Cap1 Quicksilver MC 1.75k, BankAmericard 1-2-3 Visa Signature - UCF Alumni Association 5k, Discover 7k, Citi Diamond Preferred MC 10.35k, Wells Fargo Rewards Visa 7k, Chase Freedom 5k, Chase Ink 7.5k, Amex Green NPSL, Dillard's Amex 7.5k, JC Penney 7.5k, Kay Jeweler's 5.1k
Message 25 of 73
JusdoNit
Established Contributor

Re: PIF all the time...really?

LOL.  This is a hot topicSmiley Very Happy

 

Over here we have nothing but love for the PIFer's. Smiley Tongue I just wish they would let me know when it is "open season" so I can enroll in one of their programs.  I have some cards that would love to be PIF'd any month.  Let me know where to send them to.  I have my own stamps.Smiley Wink ROTF...LMTO


Starting Score: 722
Current Score: Now 687 what the hockey sticks...from a 784 (Aug 12 EX 751 EQ Fico)
Goal Score: 800

If your outGo is more than your INcome than your UpKeep will become your downFALL.

Take the FICO Fitness Challenge


Message 26 of 73
Revelate
Moderator Emeritus

Re: PIF all the time...really?


@jasimae wrote:

I'm going to tread on what perhaps might be "touchy" ground, but I feel that I have to touch upon this.  In reading many threads and posts over the many months I've been on these boards, it seems that a lot of folks claim that they "PIF" their balance every month.  Then I read other posts wherein these same folks talk about how they've run up their balance to however many thousands of dollars and consistently PIF the balance every month and doing this over several cards.  Or so they claim. I for one know that I do not PIF the balance every month and I make a pretty decent income, if I do say so myself.  If I've only charged up a small amount, yes, PIF is no problem and I'll quicly do that.  However, if I happen to run up a large balance or have made a large purchase then I will definitely try to float it for 2 or 3 months.  And I feel no shame in doing so and saying so.  I sometimes get the feeling that some folks on these boards are "frontin'" like they PIF every month but they really don't.  If you've got it like that and can do that, then kudos to you, and that's great.  But the reality is that there is nothing wrong with floating a balance if you can.  If you're only paying the minimum amount due, then yes, that's probably going to be problematic and viewed negatively, but I doubt if creditors are sweating you if you don't PIF every month.  Clearly with the AmEx charge cards PIF is a must but for the revolving cards, it's not as essential and it's not essential to pretend that you do.


To offer an alternate view, and what I've done on a card or two.

 

I don't outspend my income.  Never have when I have been employed at all.  Call me cheap, or materially unmotivated, or whatever you like, but it's never happened... probably never will till I'm married.

 

If I'm running my life through a new card, my deposits just keep dropping into my bank account.  After I get close to maxxing a card, (1950+ / 2000 or thereabouts for example), I just simply pay pretty much the entire thing off (I don't go to zero all the time, but I don't claim I PIF either).  It's not unfeasible for people to do this.  Especially if they have savings to begin with, and time their heavy expenditures (new clothes or whatever) in periods where they're breaking in a new card.   

 

This is a strategy that works for me from everything I've seen and heard first-hand over the years.  Others may do differently, and some may not even be telling the complete truth the entire time, but who cares?  I pickup information that helps me build my own personal credit plan, and everyone's is different.  Pick what works for you, ignore the rest, go on with life Smiley Happy.

 




        
Message 27 of 73
Chrisla2077
Established Contributor

Re: PIF all the time...really?

Before I lost my job,which killed my credit, I PIF every month even on large balances. I make a minimal income, but I charged things I had the cash for just to build the history. For example, utilities, groceries, and other monthly expenses. I believe it's possible to PIF large balances, but probably things people already have the cash for,

Message 28 of 73
navigatethis12
Valued Contributor

Re: PIF all the time...really?

I have paid in full since my first card two years ago and never plan on not doing so. The only times I do not is when the annual percentage rate is 0% for a certain amount of time (Amazon Store card). If you pay interest on a rewards card then most likely any rewards you accumulate will just be paying back the interest.  I guess one way to make sure you pay in full is just not charge more than you know you can afford. You could also just use a debit card.

 

To me it's also the whole principle of paying interest. I'm someone who won't pay for something that I do not have to. Just like I would never obtain a card with an annual fee. Fees in general are things that I avoid at all costs.

Message 29 of 73
Anonymous
Not applicable

Re: PIF all the time...really?

Charge cards = PIF... or else Smiley Tongue

Message 30 of 73
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