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Frequent Contributor
AF_23
Posts: 288
Registered: ‎02-06-2012
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Re: People need to re-think Amex's 3x CLI policy

[ Edited ]


6. "High income" on this forum (and in American generally) is a misnomer. If your household income is less than 350k/year, you are not wealthy. If your household income is 100k to 350k, you are (the incredibly shrinking) middle class. I know nobody likes to be told they are poor, so I won't continue the example. Call yourselves working class, whatever. The point is that there are lots of products designed for the working poor (Walmart, for example) and many designed for the middle class (Chase Freedom, discover more, etc.) and there are some products designed for the wealthy. Amex may have expanded their base to remain profitable, but at their core they are still designing products for the wealthy. If you are not in that group, it is reasonable to expect you will need to game the system to some degree to get the products that work for you. 

 


So you think AmEx's core demographic is people making over 350k  and thats it LOL ? How can you honestly think 350k  HHI is middle class in any city ? I think delusion has set in for you my friend. AmEx caters to a bigger demographic than you think. 

Established Contributor
distantarray
Posts: 2,112
Registered: ‎09-25-2011
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Re: People need to re-think Amex's 3x CLI policy

Remember even if you make 100 small purchases and 100 payments to Amex each month everything goes by a risk assement of their internal score. If you pay on time multiple times a month even in small increments if you were looking for a higher limit it doesn't mean your going to spend it with normal spending. Anyone knows there are many frugal rich people, who save all gear live frugally and spend lavishly few times a year going on nice vacations etc.

 

If a friend always borrowed $20 $100 from me and he always made sure to pay me back on time everytime goes out of his way to ensure it, why wouldn't I trust him if he suddenly asked for $1000? 

 

It all depends on how Amex internal system works but charging up maxing out the card is one way it shows you NEED a increase, but this is a much higher risk imo than a person who doesn't spend 20% of his CL each month and pays off.

 

With lavish spenders there is more risk of bankruptcies etc. So don't think Amex will always give you 3x just for maxing it out and paying few times a month, although they might or they might not is based on them. Also credit card companies realize responsible people understand utility with credit / debt ratios on credit scores. Why not give people CL they request if there's statistically low chance of a blow out?

 

Statistically speak I'm pretty sure people maxing out their cards every month requesting a higher credit limit has a better chance of a blow out and  a huge loss etc. Also for instance travel cards should always have good limits , $1000 travel card is useless imo since 1 international ticket can greatly exceed that.


total credit limits $108,400 Credit scores Ex 728 EQ 738 TU 758
Established Contributor
Cdnewmanpac
Posts: 766
Registered: ‎01-16-2012
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Re: People need to re-think Amex's 3x CLI policy



So you think AmEx's core demographic is people making over 350k  and thats it LOL ? How can you honestly think 350k  HHI is middle class in any city ? I think delusion has set in for you my friend. AmEx caters to a bigger demographic than you think. 


No. Nor did I write that.

1.I think Amex originally designed its products to cater to travelling businessmen and the wealthy. I think that design still works its way into much of what they do. If you compare those groups from the 1960s-70s, in terms of lifestyle, spending habits, etc. to modern families, the parallel is with those above 350k. 

2. I acknowledge that they have expanded their products beyond this in order to make a profit (its even in the part you quoted). The percentage of Americans classified as high income has shrunk markedly in the last 30 years and there is no way Amex could remain profitable targeting only that group. This is one of the effects of wealth concentration. Nevertheless, that group is the group around which their computer model was built. I think this is one of the reasons the Zync failed: they tried to apply their algorithms based on wealthy people and business travelers to a card they marketed to new grads. I think at this point Amex has given up on that approach and is now focusing on marketing prepaid products to those under 100k in hhi.

3. I think we are defining middle class differently. You mean median income, which is closer to 50k. I mean equivalent purchasing power. Both are sociologically/economically valid markers, but lead to very different numbers. As the median income in the US declines (as it has every year since 2007), the purchasing power of that income does not change, it just means more people cannot afford things they used to be able to afford. If you look at the purchasing power or discretionary income of a family of 4 from 1955 that was considered "middle class", the income equivalent in today's demographics is pretty close to 250k. Putting a few standard deviations around that, you get the 100k to 350k I cited. The reality is that the middle class, in terms of what that meant in the 1950s and 60s is shrinking rapidly. I think this is a serious threat to Amex's long term profitability, as their market advantage has historically been amongst the group that is now shrinking. 

 

In wallet: Ink Plus 10k, AMEX TE 25k. In bag: CSP 16k, USAA WMC 15k, Hyatt 13k, United MPE 12k, AMEX HHonors 3k. In SD: Cap 1 QS 5k, Discover IT 7k. FICO 08 says my EQ is now 844, was 510 in 2010.
Established Member
RavenNation
Posts: 16
Registered: ‎11-12-2012
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Re: People need to re-think Amex's 3x CLI policy

I know that I don't have a high income, being less than $50k, but with Amex initially giving me a starting limit of $8k would it be bad to at least try for the full $24k? Trust and believe I do not need that much credit nor would I be upset if it was denied but if its possible to get it why not? I guess I'm just wondering if would be looked at as bad if I asked for such a high amount? Any insight?
Established Member
bs1234
Posts: 23
Registered: ‎11-14-2012
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Re: People need to re-think Amex's 3x CLI policy


RavenNation wrote:
I know that I don't have a high income, being less than $50k, but with Amex initially giving me a starting limit of $8k would it be bad to at least try for the full $24k? Trust and believe I do not need that much credit nor would I be upset if it was denied but if its possible to get it why not? I guess I'm just wondering if would be looked at as bad if I asked for such a high amount? Any insight?

 

In a perfect world, it shouldn't look bad: we don't know how they evaluate creditworthiness, and since they won't tell us, they should accept that when we offer a figure, it is just a guess.

 

And even in this world, I think it's OK.  Almost certainly they will come up with a lower counter-offer, and even if they say no, not too much lost.   I would think the worst case might be if they DID give it to you, as that might make any other issuer nervous about their exposure, but I doubt that that will happen.

 

Asking for an increase above $25K causes a more involved process, so don't do that yet.

Established Member
RavenNation
Posts: 16
Registered: ‎11-12-2012
0

Re: People need to re-think Amex's 3x CLI policy

@bs1234 - thank you for the response. I would be fully prepared for a denial and even more happier if it was just increased to $10k but after hearing so much about it I would like to try my luck. I think that I would still be scared to even do it just because of the increased chance of a FR.
Regular Contributor
CotySinz
Posts: 237
Registered: ‎06-27-2011
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Re: People need to re-think Amex's 3x CLI policy

This idea of people having to have a charge card for 6mos to get a revolver isn't necessiarly accurate..

 

I got a Green charge last week, apped for BCE today and was approved so.. And in 61 days you'll bet I'll try my luck with 3x CLI :smileywink:


Starting: 563 | Current: 753 (Walmart TU 11/12) | Goal: 800 | Garden since: 01/15/2013

Valued Member
Fenerbahce
Posts: 40
Registered: ‎04-18-2008
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Re: People need to re-think Amex's 3x CLI policy

Yeah I guess this CLI thing isn't as automatic as some may have you believe...I have all scores above 740 (fico) and got denied for CLI from 5k to 15 and 20k. I have opened 3 accounts this week though...may be a red flag for them I guess.

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Valued Contributor
bribro
Posts: 1,367
Registered: ‎04-20-2012
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Re: People need to re-think Amex's 3x CLI policy

I'll have to disagree with the OPs initial post. I was approved for a $10k CL on a Blue Sky targeted offer. Within the first month I spent the bare minimum, $500, to get my signup bonus, $400, then paid the remaining $100 off. I didn't use the card at all for almost a month, then asked for the CLI at 61 days and got bumped to a $22.5k CL. If anything, they should have CLD'd me.

TU FICO: 800 (2/1/14) | CK Score: 802 (2/1/14) | CS Score: 805 (2/1/14)

J.P. Morgan Palladium ($250k) | AmEx Platinum (NPSL) | AmEx SPG Personal/Business ($50k/$50k) | Citi Executive AAdvantage WEMC ($50k) | Citi Dividend WEMC ($50k) | Chase Sapphire Preferred VS ($50k) | Chase Ink Bold WEMC ($50k Flex) | Chase Ink Plus WEMC ($25k) | Chase Freedom VS ($25k) | Chase Freedom WMC ($25k) | Chase MileagePlus Explorer ($25k) | Chase Southwest RR Plus Business/Personal ($15k/$15k) | Barclays US Airways ($25k) | Barclays Hawaiian Airlines ($25k) | BofA Alaska Airlines ($10k) | Lexus Financial Services ($30k) | Mercedes-Benz Financial Services ($50k)
Established Contributor
distantarray
Posts: 2,112
Registered: ‎09-25-2011
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Re: People need to re-think Amex's 3x CLI policy


CotySinz wrote:

This idea of people having to have a charge card for 6mos to get a revolver isn't necessiarly accurate..

 

I got a Green charge last week, apped for BCE today and was approved so.. And in 61 days you'll bet I'll try my luck with 3x CLI :smileywink:


yea but then look at your scores :smileytongue: 

 

First card I apped for was BCP and I was approved at 758 score for $5,500  first credit card with Amex, and even if I do the 3x CLI it still won't be my highest limit =(


total credit limits $108,400 Credit scores Ex 728 EQ 738 TU 758

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