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Valued Member
Posts: 48
Registered: ‎04-07-2017
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Re: Possible changes coming to the Chase UR program


yfan wrote:

Oh, I have no doubt that would run the risk of losing a large population they just won over, insofar as the "credit card travel hacker" population is large. My point is that they wouldn't mind losing that population because it is a population, they have decided, is costing them too much. I doubt Chase ever intended to be bankrolling high-end vacation packages for relatively new customers who have used their more expensive products for only a short period of time.


The only thing I would disagree with you about is that Chase runs the risk of "massive customer loss". Travel hackers may be 'massive' enough to cost Chase enough to make them consider these changes, but I doubt they are numerous enough to cost Chase "massive" loss in total number of customers they serve. I do think people overestimate their power as the "online travel [hacking] community."

 

At the end of the day, this is not about loyalty. No one should expect it to be. Not Chase, and not consumers. It's about competition. Chase is merely removing a competitive advantage no one else in the market provides and one it sees as costing too much, and making the bet that there are still enough remaining advantages it will fish out the travel hackers without much of a "mass exodus."


Exactly. Chase is a bank, so they're very good at math. They've decided they'll be money ahead by changing the rules. If it was going to cost them profit, they wouldn't do it. Now they're just figuring out which changes they can make to the rules.

Contributor
Posts: 185
Registered: ‎10-22-2010
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Re: Possible changes coming to the Chase UR program

[ Edited ]

Skymogul wrote:

yfan wrote:

Oh, I have no doubt that would run the risk of losing a large population they just won over, insofar as the "credit card travel hacker" population is large. My point is that they wouldn't mind losing that population because it is a population, they have decided, is costing them too much. I doubt Chase ever intended to be bankrolling high-end vacation packages for relatively new customers who have used their more expensive products for only a short period of time.


The only thing I would disagree with you about is that Chase runs the risk of "massive customer loss". Travel hackers may be 'massive' enough to cost Chase enough to make them consider these changes, but I doubt they are numerous enough to cost Chase "massive" loss in total number of customers they serve. I do think people overestimate their power as the "online travel [hacking] community."

 

At the end of the day, this is not about loyalty. No one should expect it to be. Not Chase, and not consumers. It's about competition. Chase is merely removing a competitive advantage no one else in the market provides and one it sees as costing too much, and making the bet that there are still enough remaining advantages it will fish out the travel hackers without much of a "mass exodus."


Exactly. Chase is a bank, so they're very good at math. They've decided they'll be money ahead by changing the rules. If it was going to cost them profit, they wouldn't do it. Now they're just figuring out which changes they can make to the rules.


They may be good at numbers but how many here would bet that they expected the popularity of the CSR last year? The opposite COULD happen and as good as they are with numbers may not be prepared for such large consumer movements. I'm sure they built in some risk with these changes, but it could backfire in a way they were not expecting. Even though the chances of that happening may be slim. 

 

I agree the changes they are making aren't that drastic and may just end up annoying everyone. lol 

Valued Contributor
Posts: 1,879
Registered: ‎07-17-2014

Re: Possible changes coming to the Chase UR program


driftless wrote:

We currently transfer my Freedom's UR points plus my wife's CSP and Freedom's point to my CSR.  Neither of us have the Trifecta.  We both use our Freedom's mainly for the 5X categories.  If Chase does go through with this rumored change I will just close my Freedom and move the CL over to my CSR.

 


I think this is precisely the response Chase is counting on. People who will keep and use their high end AF cards rather than trying to "hit" the "trifecta".

Super Contributor
Posts: 5,955
Registered: ‎06-05-2013

Re: Possible changes coming to the Chase UR program

Chase often puts out surveys and that doesn't mean such changes are coming. If they did this I'd start dumping cards. In fact chase would begin to lose large amounts of my spend as a direct result. Seriously chase gets a large chunk of my spend (even non bonus spend) and this type of move would shft me away from them for good, other than to farm signup offers.The freedom cards would all be tossed. The non-premium business cards gone. Pay AFs for cards? Hell no. 

;
Starting Score: EQ: 714, TU 684
Current Score: EQ: 725 7/30/13, TU 684 6/2013, Exp 826 4/16/17, Last App 5/4/17
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Valued Contributor
Posts: 1,879
Registered: ‎07-17-2014
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Re: Possible changes coming to the Chase UR program


adelphi_sky wrote:

They may be good at numbers but how many here would bet that they expected the popularity of the CSR last year?  


Actually, pretty much everyone could have predicted that there would be a rush on the CSR given the 100K point bonus. I would say it's that bonus that drove the rush, not the ability to transfer from Freedom/FU.

Super Contributor
Posts: 5,955
Registered: ‎06-05-2013
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Re: Possible changes coming to the Chase UR program


joe8185 wrote:

MrDisco99 wrote:
This is literally the primary reason everyone wants Chase cards. Every travel hack YouTube video says to get the trifecta. Getting rid of that benefit would be shocking.

If Chase is actually planning to do this, the bolded is probably a major reason why. I doubt they particularly like their cards being manipulated to hoover up rewards points. "Travel hacks" people may not like it if this happens, but those cards are Chase's to do with as they deem best.


And the people who spend a lot of money with chase are free to dump their cards and give their spend to other companies that have a better return value. If this happened Amex would start getting almost all my chase spend. 

;
Starting Score: EQ: 714, TU 684
Current Score: EQ: 725 7/30/13, TU 684 6/2013, Exp 826 4/16/17, Last App 5/4/17
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Contributor
Posts: 185
Registered: ‎10-22-2010
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Re: Possible changes coming to the Chase UR program


yfan wrote:

adelphi_sky wrote:

They may be good at numbers but how many here would bet that they expected the popularity of the CSR last year?  


Actually, pretty much everyone could have predicted that there would be a rush on the CSR given the 100K point bonus. I would say it's that bonus that drove the rush, not the ability to transfer from Freedom/FU.


Good point. Should be interesting to see how everything plays out. Hope the fun times aren't over. 

Super Contributor
Posts: 5,955
Registered: ‎06-05-2013
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Re: Possible changes coming to the Chase UR program


yfan wrote:

adelphi_sky wrote:

I think Chase could also cut off their nose to spite their face. The CSR was driven by these same users. The whole UR program was also a winner even before the CSR came on the scene. You change that, you run the risk of losing a large population that you just won over.


Oh, I have no doubt that would run the risk of losing a large population they just won over, insofar as the "credit card travel hacker" population is large. My point is that they wouldn't mind losing that population because it is a population, they have decided, is costing them too much. I doubt Chase ever intended to be bankrolling high-end vacation packages for relatively new customers who have used their more expensive products for only a short period of time.

 


adelphi_sky wrote:

Remember, this generation isn't as brand loyal as their parents. They will respond negatively because there ARE other options out there. They realize that banks aren't necessarily for their best interest and if the benefits stop, they move on. Look at how many people started jumping ship from the AMEX Platinum until Amex was forced to up its game? Now is not the time to start removing benefits just as other card issuers are upping their game to better compete. Again, Chase runs the risk of massive customer loss if this change goes bad. The current UR program made the $450 AF for the CSR worth it. Remove the one thing that makes having the CSR worth it, and you reverse the popularity you created last year. 


Yup, and once again my point is that the popularity they created last year is what Chase would like to reverse, at least among "travel hackers." Chase created the CSR to compete with the Amex Platinum, not to fund vacation packages for customers who are admittedly not loyal. They may have succeeded a bit too much and that success is costing them more than they would like.

 

You are also absolutely right that there ARE other options people can go to, but as Irish noted at the beginning of this thread, none of them provide this type of... shall we say... game-a-bility with their lineups. Chase is calculating, correctly, that this specific advantage will not be available anywhere else their customers can move to.

 

The only thing I would disagree with you about is that Chase runs the risk of "massive customer loss". Travel hackers may be 'massive' enough to cost Chase enough to make them consider these changes, but I doubt they are numerous enough to cost Chase "massive" loss in total number of customers they serve. I do think people overestimate their power as the "online travel [hacking] community."

 

At the end of the day, this is not about loyalty. No one should expect it to be. Not Chase, and not consumers. It's about competition. Chase is merely removing a competitive advantage no one else in the market provides and one it sees as costing too much, and making the bet that there are still enough remaining advantages it will fish out the travel hackers without much of a "mass exodus."


 Anyone who is in the travel game knows that people tend to stick with chase for years because of their bonus category structure. I pay multiple AFs to chase and have been a chase customer for years. The only people who get a signup on a chase card and then dump the card the following year never to use the card again are probably people who don't really have enough money to spend with chase anyway. Doing this just gives those people no incentive to stay loyal to chase at all and all the more reason to dump the card after the first year. There is a whole group of people who spend a lot with chase because of their reward structure and not all those people are redeeming awards at over 1.5 cents per point. Some are redeeming at a lower rate. In terms of not having anywhere to go that just is not true. Amex has multiple options that would be way more appealing than chase if they did such a move. 

;
Starting Score: EQ: 714, TU 684
Current Score: EQ: 725 7/30/13, TU 684 6/2013, Exp 826 4/16/17, Last App 5/4/17
Goal Score: 800 (Achieved!) In garden until undecided
Super Contributor
Posts: 5,955
Registered: ‎06-05-2013

Re: Possible changes coming to the Chase UR program


frogman1 wrote:

yfan wrote:

UpperNwGuy wrote:

It surprises me that Chase, in its zeal to reduce costs, has chosen to devalue a benefit that retains the loyalty of current cardholders, yet they show no sign of reducing the huge signup bonuses for new cardholders.  This tells me that they value new customers over the current ones.  


Sure. And I know plenty of people just here who value their new cards over their old cards the exact same way - in a rush to earn bonuses. What's good for the goose and all that...

 


UpperNwGuy wrote:

They can't complain about churning if their own rewards structure encourages churning.


They're not complaining. They are changing the rewards structure so that it no longer encourages churning as much.


Why would this discourage churnig?  How much are people making with the current rewards structure? It seems to me that something like the 60,000 point Southwest bonus is going to make more money for the customer than transferring points around and paying annual big annual fees. 


It doesn't discourage churning. It merely would discourage spending on a variety of chase cards.

;
Starting Score: EQ: 714, TU 684
Current Score: EQ: 725 7/30/13, TU 684 6/2013, Exp 826 4/16/17, Last App 5/4/17
Goal Score: 800 (Achieved!) In garden until undecided
Super Contributor
Posts: 5,955
Registered: ‎06-05-2013
0

Re: Possible changes coming to the Chase UR program


yfan wrote:

adelphi_sky wrote:

They may be good at numbers but how many here would bet that they expected the popularity of the CSR last year?  


Actually, pretty much everyone could have predicted that there would be a rush on the CSR given the 100K point bonus. I would say it's that bonus that drove the rush, not the ability to transfer from Freedom/FU.


Yes this is true.

;
Starting Score: EQ: 714, TU 684
Current Score: EQ: 725 7/30/13, TU 684 6/2013, Exp 826 4/16/17, Last App 5/4/17
Goal Score: 800 (Achieved!) In garden until undecided

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