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Re: Synchrony Bank Requested 4056T !!!!!


humuhumunukunukuapuaa wrote:

iv wrote:

 

Right... so since you can't have any personal familiy info touched by LN, you carry absolutely no medical or other insurance?

 

Sure.

 

Outside of that fantasy world... since you do have insurance - LN already has detailed personal info, SSNs, and every insurance-covered medical billing detail on those family members.

 

And unlike their 4506-T processing services, that info is cross-shared. And you can't really "opt-out".

 

This certainly isn't "thinking LN is your buddy".  This is recognizing objective reality.


 

You're entitiled to your opinion, which is  exactly that - an opinion. 

 

Many of us have stated that we don't wish to share our minor children's or our own sensitive medical information (among many other factors) with a third-party data aggregator with whom we have no relationship. (and one whose reputation is in the toilet, incidentally). And that's a very legitimate concern of many of us.

 

We can choose to do whatever we like, as can you.

 

Have a fantastic day! Smiley Happy


 

Hi humuhumu! (And here I thought I was on your Ignore List...!)

 

Facts are things like "LN (already) records, stores, and shares the majority of medical data in the US", and "LN offers 4506-T processing service contracts to lenders".  (Facts: Things that remain true, whether or not you believe them... including "No, I don't work for LN, nor do I even particularly like the company".)

 

Opinions are things... that could likely get us tagged as not FSR.

 

So... unrelated but FSR question - Hawaiian, reef diver, or saltwater aquarium fan?

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Re: Synchrony Bank Requested 4056T !!!!!

[ Edited ]

iv - once again, it's your opinion, and others may think differently than you, but we will all forgive you for it nevertheless!

 

Any random, poorly-organized company may have private information about us; that doesn't mean any of us are ok with just handing information out like candy about our minor children so they can augment their data when we have a choice.

 

Let them make their billions of dollars a year without us giving them extra help.

 

Have a nice rest of the weekend.



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Re: Synchrony Bank Requested 4056T !!!!!


Irish80 wrote:

longtimelurker wrote:

UncleB wrote:

mister-endowed wrote:

I'll never understand the paranoia people feel by consenting to provide their tax transcript. I mean what more do we really have to loose?! Banks already monitor our everyday activities and have a wealth of information about us at their fingertips. What extra can we provide that they don't already have? Updated income, number of dependent, business profits/losses, employment, marital status, household size maybe?! So ironical that we feel VERY comfortable providing our SSN and stated income when applying for credit but become very defensive when they request proof of the same info we supplied them initially. Really?! I think this Lexis Nexis concern is way too overrated and SOME people are using it as a cover up for whatever bluff they did. For over $50k in exposure, we don't think it's only fair that banks take precautionary measures by requesting these documents to mitigate against lending risk and losses. After all they are lending us their money! Not to mention, as Americans do we even have a real sense of privacy... they know everything about us, what more can we protect or prevent them from knowing. Oh well I digress but to each his own...


Other threads have had this debate already, with each side firmly entrenched with their opinion.

 

I'll only mention here that I wouldn't be willing to provide my dependent children's social security number to any of my lenders for a credit card, which is what you are in fact doing when you consent to a 4506-T.  I wouldn't be willing to provide a spouses, either, but at least a spouse can provide consent, which is more than a child can do.

 

If there is a data breach (which isn't an unreasonable concern) it's also unclear what responsibility the parties would have to any dependent children/spouses who's information might be stolen/leaked, since they aren't customers.


Not sure my position is entirely coherent, but here it is anyway!

 

1) I understand privacy concerns.   So, if someone says that they will not provide 4506-T information to any lender (with the exception of mortgage for which there is really no alternative), that makes sense.

2) But here various posters constantly mention LN selling the info.   This gives me the impression that if synchrony kept it in house, that would OK (or at least a less automatic no).  So since some privacy would already be gone, I want to know what people think the additional harm in selling it is.


I'm certainly not an expert on what info LN sells to other companies but given the almost daily reports of this or that company having their sites hacked and exposing customers personal info, you could argue that by selling the info LN increases the chance of your biographical/credit info ending up in the hands of some Russian hacker and upping the chances of identity theft.


^^^^THIS.  And to add on, any third parties purchasing the info (maybe easier to hack).  Eventually, as reputable third parties collect their own data, Amex does its own 4506t, CU's take pay stubs, printouts, etc., the need for profit will lead to selling info to less deserving clients.  They already keep info on an ex husband divorced 32 years ago, there seems to be a lapse in what info they want to keep (as in the quality of my "security questions"), they have numerous errors as years go by (but you need to remember the info with errors, because you can not correct the data without an act of God Smiley Wink), AND, my tax info is not for sale.  So there.

Starting score EQ SW 563 April 2014, Fico 8 EQ 801, EX 794, TU 805 (April 2016)
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Re: Synchrony Bank Requested 4056T !!!!!


GTC471 wrote:

So, this so-called 4506-T form is what made AmEx infamous for their "FINANCIAL REVIEW". Seems like AmEx does it more frequently than other institutions. I haven't heard of this practice since I began to rebuild my credit in 2015 and in April 2016, I started getting credit lines from major credit card companies like AmEx, Chase, WF, etc. The day I received my 4th AmEx card in June 2016, the Platinum Card, used it once and next thing I saw when I logged on was SUSPENDED ACCOUNTS. A warning letter like Synchrony would've been preferrable, but it is what it is. I had to scramble at 11 pm (I work nights, 7p-7a) going through all my automatic payment bills coming out of my AmEx cards and switching them back to my debit card. Called them up right away, and of course, they requested the 4506-T. I signed the form, faxed it back, and within 10 days, the suspension was lifted and accounts restored.

 

I know most everyone disagrees and very firmly refuse to release this and that's their right.  But my thought is, if they are going to trust me with their money, I guess it's just logical that I earn their trust as well. It's a two way process of building a trusting relationship, I think. I need them to strengthen my financial satus, I will make sure I get their trust and I'll provide what they want to earn that.

 

Sorry to hear you went through this.


Amex is not Lexis nexus

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Re: Synchrony Bank Requested 4056T !!!!!


kdm31091 wrote:

awp317 wrote:

humuhumunukunukuapuaa wrote:

awp317 wrote:

I know im beating a dead horse here. But If it weren't for my willingness to just sign the document and not care I wouldn't have the limits I do have on most of my accounts.  Chase and Amex both asked me to document. I had no problem with this. Now that I have done it with AMEX they don't question approving new limits since I'm over the 35k exposure with them. I also had to prove income to Mercedes-Benz financial to lease my new s class, oddly enough they preferred bank statements to tax returns, even with my scores they just said since I had opened a lot of accounts recently they wanted to be extra sure, 10 min later I walked into the back room, signed documents and drove away, IM not going to deny myself something I want just because I fear what "might" happen. The only reason I can see someone not wanting to submit is because they were not truthful on the app, to each is own. But Seriously, I have life lock, I'm not worried about identity theft. I know that my investment accounts and bank accounts require me to visit in person to do anything catastrophic, and my credit cards all have fraud protection. So why should I care? That being said I haven't received a 1040 from GE/Synchrony. Curious to see if I do, Since its in my company name with me as a PG it may be different who knows. Happy to show business tax returns too. 


 

UncleB mentioned a number of very excellent reasons above that a person would not want to submit a 4506-T, including children's tax data and sensitive medical expense information. They've been mentioned repeatedly in several other threads also, which I would suggest as reading material. Smiley Happy

 

LexisNexis has a large number of class-action lawsuits against them for violating the FCRA many times. I'd trust a homeless stranger with my information more so than I would them.

 

Plus, as we have seen with all of the data sharing services (LexisNexis, Innovis and others) not only do you lose control of your personal information once they get hold of it, but they often share very incorrect information as well.

 

We don't know them and have never agreed to do business with them, so we would not want to share our sensitive tax and financial information with them.

 

You also may not care about your personal finanical information residing in some random database of an information sharing service, but most of us would have a problem with that.

 

I also don't know why anyone would not do their best to minimize the number of sources that have this sensitive data.

 

 

Here is a post that someone made in a different thread that I think clarifies quite a bit: (and these are just a few of the items provided on a 4506-Tthis is not a complete list)

 

 

 

 

Screen Shot 2016-07-28 at 9.44.37 PM.png

 

 

 

You can certainly feel free to trust a company you don't do any business with with your child's sensitive information on your tax return, or your own sensitive medical expense information. Most of us don't plan to do that.

 

 

My response would be no thanks to sharing it all with third-party information collection services if asked.


Honestly, I still don't see a problem with sharing any of that info. Most likely out there anyway. If the company is extending you credit do you really think they should just take your word for it? Unfortunately in 2016 a mans word doesn't mean jack. It comes down to this for me. A creditor is perfectly within their right to ask you for proof of income and financials when extending credit, and you are within your right to refrain from handing over said info. But you can't be mad then when the creditor who is still well within its rights decides to not do business with you and close your accounts. 


100% agreed.

 

If you don't want to give out the information, that's neither here nor there. But acting like it's so outrageous for a creditor to want the information is the part that doesn't make sense to me.

 

Especially since many on here have exposure well beyond "average", it makes sense you will stick out and be asked to back up your claims. If you can't,  or don't want to, then of course the accounts may be revoked. I just don't see what the big outrage is. Yes I get it, nobody wants their information given out but like stated it's pretty much out there anyway.


It is not the creditor, I would have NO problem with Amex nor Chase.  It's third party data collectors that have sold information since the 1990's that we have a problem with,  what are you not getting here?  Smiley Wink. Am a bit older than you are, and I turned off all but a few location services (needed if want to find bus or uber) on both my android and iOS devices.  Yes, I am that retentive.  Smiley Wink

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Re: Synchrony Bank Requested 4056T !!!!!


Imperfectfuture wrote:

It is not the creditor, I would have NO problem with Amex nor Chase.  It's third party data collectors that have sold information since the 1990's that we have a problem with,  what are you not getting here?  Smiley Wink. Am a bit older than you are, and I turned off all but a few location services (needed if want to find bus or uber) on both my android and iOS devices.  Yes, I am that retentive.  Smiley Wink


What am not getting is proof of actual additional harm!  

 

For example, does turning off location services really increase security.  From Snowden, we know that these can be silently turned out, so no defence against state actors, and with recent leaks, this technology may be available to criminals.   So at best you may be preventing some targetted ads.

 

Not giving LN your data might sound good, but does it actually achieve anything, more so than putting your chip card in a RFID shield because you've heard that chips can be read (even if that is a different type of chip).

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Re: Synchrony Bank Requested 4056T !!!!!

[ Edited ]

Imperfectfuture wrote:


It is not the creditor, I would have NO problem with Amex nor Chase.  It's third party data collectors that have sold information since the 1990's that we have a problem with,  what are you not getting here?  Smiley Wink. Am a bit older than you are, and I turned off all but a few location services (needed if want to find bus or uber) on both my android and iOS devices.  Yes, I am that retentive.  Smiley Wink


 

Chase, Citi and other major lenders use 3rd party data collection services when they request the 4506-T as well.

 

 

https://www.chase.com/content/dam/chasecom/en/mortgage/documents/irs_form_4506t-ez.pdf

 

 

http://www.citigroup.com/citi/citizen/community/homeownershippreservation/files/Blank%204506T.pdf

 

 



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Re: Synchrony Bank Requested 4056T !!!!!


humuhumunukunukuapuaa wrote:

Imperfectfuture wrote:


It is not the creditor, I would have NO problem with Amex nor Chase.  It's third party data collectors that have sold information since the 1990's that we have a problem with,  what are you not getting here?  Smiley Wink. Am a bit older than you are, and I turned off all but a few location services (needed if want to find bus or uber) on both my android and iOS devices.  Yes, I am that retentive.  Smiley Wink


 

Chase, Citi and other major lenders use 3rd party data collection services when they request the 4506-T as well.

 

 

https://www.chase.com/content/dam/chasecom/en/mortgage/documents/irs_form_4506t-ez.pdf

 

 

http://www.citigroup.com/citi/citizen/community/homeownershippreservation/files/Blank%204506T.pdf

 

 


Yes, here is CoreLogic's ad for 4506-T (Citi's TP)  https://www.credco.com/mortgage-lender/fraud-compliance/4506t-direct.aspx

 

More for mortgages, it seems to offer a service where you get the borrower to submit the first page of the tax form, and then compare it to what was actually submitted to the IRS.  Presumably this catches out rather foolish people!

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Re: Synchrony Bank Requested 4056T !!!!!


longtimelurker wrote:

Yes-Its-Me wrote:

Sorry about the loss of your credit lines.  But it came down to the choice of keeping those or having your tax info. shared with a third party company.  So in this case, you made the right decision.


I wonder if this is being over-emphasized on this forum.   How do we quantify the actual harm of Lexis-Nexus selling your data (in addition to whatever they have anyway)? Is this harm greater than the benefit of keeping the cards?

 

 


I think it is...

Lexis-Nexis is well known for datamining and selling anything they grab their hands on...

Most Synch cards are not worth this price...

 

I really wouldnt have a problem IF they handled the data entirely, instead of putting it out for others to buy (Lexis will offer your 4056T data for sale to any creditor that asks ..... albeit it may be aggregated)

 

Also Govt and Private Sector can get this data.  Again without your consent... Your opening pandoras box..

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Re: Synchrony Bank Requested 4056T !!!!!


longtimelurker wrote:

Imperfectfuture wrote:

It is not the creditor, I would have NO problem with Amex nor Chase.  It's third party data collectors that have sold information since the 1990's that we have a problem with,  what are you not getting here?  Smiley Wink. Am a bit older than you are, and I turned off all but a few location services (needed if want to find bus or uber) on both my android and iOS devices.  Yes, I am that retentive.  Smiley Wink


What am not getting is proof of actual additional harm!  

 

For example, does turning off location services really increase security.  From Snowden, we know that these can be silently turned out, so no defence against state actors, and with recent leaks, this technology may be available to criminals.   So at best you may be preventing some targetted ads.

 

Not giving LN your data might sound good, but does it actually achieve anything, more so than putting your chip card in a RFID shield because you've heard that chips can be read (even if that is a different type of chip).


Then by all means, submit your tax return to lexis.  Let's see how much data they can mess up and sell.  For example, verification for turbotax and barclays goes through lexis.  I get a question, whom do I have a checking account with, and barclays is one of the answers.  Um, no, only one credit card.  Passed the onslaught of other questions, they seemed to have skipped or mixed up a few addresses.  Now, let's see how they incorporate your tax info into security questions, but the data was not fed correctly electronically nor manually.  I DARE you to try and fix it.

 

come on, take one for the team.  Smiley Tongue

 

PS, mortgage data is routinely sold, but not the tax information.  

 

PPS, what makes me feel safe?  Well, back in the early 80's, I flunked my fortran class.  Not because I wasn't good at it, but because i watched war games (Mathew Broderick), and that looked like fun.  Now, the first watching, I ignored the part about involving the FBI Smiley Surprised, BUT PAYED ATTENTION TO COVERING ONE's tracks,  I broke into a certain university's mainframe twice.  First thing I did (administrative section), is print out all the user names and passwords, and picked a professor on sabbatical.  I never DID anything, just had a little fun.  They put up a message my gateway to the backdoor was shut down due to repairs and upgrade (uh huh).  I waited for that system to come back up.  It was tougher, but got through again (hee hee, love challenges).  They then put up a message, we know you are out there, and you will be suspended when caught (sic) (never suspended, but some students thought it was very bad to break in, my friends said I should turn the printouts in, get A in everything Smiley Wink).

 

Now, since I do not wish to relocate, I gave up that pursuit (like, how hard could it be, some passwords are so dumb, y out need no technology).  Of course, cell phones track.  It is individual apps hoping to collect data that can not (trust me, I get pop ups, and I am a professional, though I am starting ground floor up again).  Life is simpler with a little protection.  Data stored in the cloud, is out of our hands.  So, you take risks.  

 

Still, I implore you to submit 4506t to lexis.  Give us feedback on the experience.

 

The above is my take of semi serious, subtle humor attempt. Smiley Wink

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