Synchrony Bank and 4506 request not so fast!!

[longtimelurker]

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@Anonymous wrote:

I can understand AAing someone for sudden delinqunicies on other accounts, new collections, COs, or Public records.  I do not understand AAing someone or UTIL spikes, inquiries, or new cards.  Im sorry, but  SP is a small snapshot in time, and scores can change literally overnight with UTIL spikes or paydowns.  People can incur a UTIL spike simply for the reason of they forgot when to pay their bill to let it report at $0 (ie not late, paid on time but then charged again before statement cut on accident - this has happened to me).

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Yes, but I doubt if many lenders AA JUST because a score dropps by 20-30 points.   They want customers, but need to mitigate risk.

So apart from FICO score (which bakes in some risk factors) they also do their own historical analysis, which might show that factor X (score drop)  along with factor Y and Z(several new accounts and large exposure  for example) etc, indicates an increased and unacceptable level of risk.

As always, they don't need to be right in every case, and of couse it sucks if you get hit as a false positive.   But it makes biz sense as long as they do a good enough job (AAing the risky ones and keeping enough of the good ones)

[Anonymous]

Expect this to only get worse as the "risk analysis" people keep pushing their predictive behavior analyses to the lenders.  "We can tell you with 90% certainty when someone is likely to default, and now you can act on it before it happens!"  True or not, that's the kind of claim that sells well to boards of directors.

[sarge12]

It really does not matter to me why they request a 4506-t. That is my tax return and contains much more information than just my income. It contains info that would make identity theft easy, and once you release it to them, who knows who sees it. I never carry a balance so it is easy for me to close an account. If some sort of risk alogorythm makes me appear a risk, to ask for a 4506-t is probably their right. To say NO is mine. These credit cards are a business relationship between me and the issuer, and may be severed at any time by either party. I did not supply 4506-t to recieve the card, I will not supply 4506-t to keep their card either...period!!!!

[longtimelurker]

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@sarge12 wrote:

It really does not matter to me why they request a 4506-t. That is my tax return and contains much more information than just my income. It contains info that would make identity theft easy, and once you release it to them, who knows who sees it. I never carry a balance so it is easy for me to close an account. If some sort of risk alogorythm makes me appear a risk, to ask for a 4506-t is probably their right. To say NO is mine. These credit cards are a business relationship between me and the issuer, and may be severed at any time by either party. I did not supply 4506-t to recieve the card, I will not supply 4506-t to keep their card either...period!!!!

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Right, and it is risk/reward balance for each individual.   In some cases, people REALLY want a card (or CLI) enough to provide the info, others adopt the "many other fish in the sea" type view and would never provide info the keep the card.

My only beef is that I think the risk is greatly exaggerated here and some people who might be better off complying are being scared into not doing so.   Almost as if every 4506-T leads automatically to identify theft.

[Anonymous]

It's also good that this discussion is out there, maybe it might help some people get a feel for what kind of "behavior" triggers the risk sensitivity, and use that information to stay well clear of that line.  In other words, the more we talk about it, the more we get a sense of where that line is.

[sarge12]

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@longtimelurker wrote:

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@sarge12 wrote:

It really does not matter to me why they request a 4506-t. That is my tax return and contains much more information than just my income. It contains info that would make identity theft easy, and once you release it to them, who knows who sees it. I never carry a balance so it is easy for me to close an account. If some sort of risk alogorythm makes me appear a risk, to ask for a 4506-t is probably their right. To say NO is mine. These credit cards are a business relationship between me and the issuer, and may be severed at any time by either party. I did not supply 4506-t to recieve the card, I will not supply 4506-t to keep their card either...period!!!!

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Right, and it is risk/reward balance for each individual.   In some cases, people REALLY want a card (or CLI) enough to provide the info, others adopt the "many other fish in the sea" type view and would never provide info the keep the card.

My only beef is that I think the risk is greatly exaggerated here and some people who might be better off complying are being scared into not doing so.   Almost as if every 4506-T leads automatically to identify theft.

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My fear is that enough people will comply with the request till it becomes part of the application process. This info has value, may be bought and sold, and data mining happens. If everyone reacts like the OP, and severs the business relationship rather than comply, it will prevent that.

[Anonymous]

Sarge12, I highly doubt the 4506 would eve become commonplace as an app requirements. We have to remember people, most lenders simply do not have the manpower to verify income or identity on Every applicant. It simply isn't feasible nor economical for the company -- this would cost a lot in overhead simply to go thru EVERY APPLICATION and ask for a 4506. Now for a small CU maybe. Chase, Synch etc with MILLIONS of customers and millions more applying daily ? I highly doubt it.

[longtimelurker]

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@Anonymous wrote:
Sarge12, I highly doubt the 4506 would eve become commonplace as an app requirements. We have to remember people, most lenders simply do not have the manpower to verify income or identity on Every applicant. It simply isn't feasible nor economical for the company -- this would cost a lot in overhead simply to go thru EVERY APPLICATION and ask for a 4506. Now for a small CU maybe. Chase, Synch etc with MILLIONS of customers and millions more applying daily ? I highly doubt it.

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And if they did:

1) Happy path:  Banks would have less risk and so increase rewards for "good" customers

2) Real path: Banks would keep the increased profits

[sarge12]

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@Anonymous wrote:
Sarge12, I highly doubt the 4506 would eve become commonplace as an app requirements. We have to remember people, most lenders simply do not have the manpower to verify income or identity on Every applicant. It simply isn't feasible nor economical for the company -- this would cost a lot in overhead simply to go thru EVERY APPLICATION and ask for a 4506. Now for a small CU maybe. Chase, Synch etc with MILLIONS of customers and millions more applying daily ? I highly doubt it.

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I disagree, having all the info on a 4506-t, is info that could actually be profitable for them to sell to their so-called partners. We gave them the right to share our info with their partners, it is in the card holder agreement. If the card issuer incurs 10 dollars of cost, and can sell this info for 25 dollars to their partners it will be profitable.

[Anonymous]

Seems that's the problem, really. If all they want to do is verify income, that's one thing, and that'll piss off a FEW people, those people that might be embellishing their income a little bit (heaven forbid!).  It's the sharing of info that has people up in arms.  Why can't they verify without sharing?