The Wyndham Rewards Visa is SEVERELY underrated

[NRB525]

I know, I know. The clarification I was trying to make, though, is that on a regular basis of spend, if one can get 7c per $1 of spend, even if others try to cut it down by second guessing deals in the area, the comparison often starts at 7c and may drop a bit from there. Still a good return.

Sarcasm doesn't translate well in text

[Anonymous]

---

@NRB525 wrote:

I know, I know. The clarification I was trying to make, though, is that on a regular basis of spend, if one can get 7c per $1 of spend, even if others try to cut it down by second guessing deals in the area, the comparison often starts at 7c and may drop a bit from there. Still a good return.

Sarcasm doesn't translate well in text

---

I get what you were saying, but you have to be very careful what you say in this thread (in particular about math, lol!!!). Certain users have been misreading things at several points in this thread. I am very glad you understand the math though.  

[onstar]

---

@Anonymous wrote:

All I said was that the redemption value is 3.7 cents per point, if you read my post that you quoted ("3.7/cents/point, an excellent redemption value"), you said exactly the same thing in your post "$222/6000 points is 3.7c per point, but that's only redemption value here". 

In other words, we completely agree on the redemption value. Neither of our math is incorrect. 3.7 cents per point is, in fact, the redemption value. 

You did take the math one step further though and show how awesome that redemption is, because at $2/point, that makes the card itself effectively a 7.4% return card when actually redeemed at this rate. Of course, these amounts will vary depending on the initial redemption, but we both calculated that correctly and agree on that.  

EDIT: No, Iberico, my math was not wrong. NRB and I actually completely agree on the math. All I said was that the redemption value was 3.7 cents per point. He literally said exactly the same thing in his "correction" - that the redemption value was 3.7 cents per point.

---

(1) Obvioulsy $222/6000 is 3.7 cents. If you keep arguing that fact then it shows you haven't been reading what others have been posting. When people say your math is wrong, it's not the answer that is wrong. It's the formula. It should never be $222 to begin with since that hotel is not worth $150/night no matter what the website says. Most people here seem to agree that those rooms should be much less than that, perhaps only $70/night at best. However, Wyndham lists them for $150, maybe so that you'll feel good about big savings using points. If you think the rooms are worth $150/night, then great. But most people in this thread seem to disagree.

(2) I gave you my Residence Inn example. Just because I found a room for 15,000 points that was listed for $299 does not mean that Marriott points are worth 2 cents per point. A single instance doesn't really matter. What matters is how can they be generally used, based on the value of the room, not just the listed price of the room.

---

@Anonymous wrote:

I seriously think this card is supremely underrated. 2 points per dollar on all purchases, and each point can easily be redeemed for more than one penny per point, and the annual fee is paid for by the 15,000 renewal bonus (which equals a free night). I really hope this rewards structure doesn't change. It seems too good to be true!!!

---

This is the last paragraph from your original post. With the word supremely striken, I agree with the rest of the paragraph. I love the restructure that they made earlier this year to the Wyndham Rewards program. I think you can easily value them at slightly better than 1 cent per point, but I wouldn't go much higher than that.

[Anonymous]

I'd like to state this respectfully, and objectively. The Fiscal Times has rated Baymont Inns and Suites as #1 among the top 10 worst motels in America. I just could not stay in this kind of property. I mean that with all due respect.

Consistent standards in places to stay are important.

[Anonymous]

Baymont Inns and Suites also received below average in every category of the JD Power Survey except for costs and fees. I just wanted to mention this not to attack but to inform.

[Anonymous]

---

@onstar wrote:

---

@Anonymous wrote:

All I said was that the redemption value is 3.7 cents per point, if you read my post that you quoted ("3.7/cents/point, an excellent redemption value"), you said exactly the same thing in your post "$222/6000 points is 3.7c per point, but that's only redemption value here". 

In other words, we completely agree on the redemption value. Neither of our math is incorrect. 3.7 cents per point is, in fact, the redemption value. 

You did take the math one step further though and show how awesome that redemption is, because at $2/point, that makes the card itself effectively a 7.4% return card when actually redeemed at this rate. Of course, these amounts will vary depending on the initial redemption, but we both calculated that correctly and agree on that.  

EDIT: No, Iberico, my math was not wrong. NRB and I actually completely agree on the math. All I said was that the redemption value was 3.7 cents per point. He literally said exactly the same thing in his "correction" - that the redemption value was 3.7 cents per point.

---

(1) Obvioulsy $222/6000 is 3.7 cents. If you keep arguing that fact then it shows you haven't been reading what others have been posting. When people say your math is wrong, it's not the answer that is wrong. It's the formula. It should never be $222 to begin with since that hotel is not worth $150/night no matter what the website says. Most people here seem to agree that those rooms should be much less than that, perhaps only $70/night at best. However, Wyndham lists them for $150, maybe so that you'll feel good about big savings using points. If you think the rooms are worth $150/night, then great. But most people in this thread seem to disagree.

---

No. Unfortunately you are incorrect on multiple counts.

First of all, I addressed the rack rate issue you proposed in post #145, which you never replied to. The long and short of it is, the $70 rate that somebody quoted was incorrect for several reasons. It wasn't considering weekend rates, and it was also including a bunch of discounts that require hefty annual fees (AARP and AAA) that I don't have (or even qualify for at my age). In other words, he was applying membership discounts that applied to him and not necessarily to everyone else. Furthermore, the going rate for last weekend was about $20 higher than this weekend, so that has to be considered as well.

Second of all, the $149 rate was hardly a "rack rate". The "rack rate" for a Wyndham booking this weekend is $129.99 per night. At discount hotel sites (in other words, non-rack rates), the rates for these same nights are no less than $128. See attached pictures. Last weekend, when I booked, there was hardly a variation in price between Wyndham and Priceline. The proposal that I overpaid by any significant amount by booking through Wyndham is simply not true, and I have the pictures to back it up. See my screenshots.

Third of all, several people do seem to be arguing that simple fact about the redemption rate. NRB posted a quote that supposedly proved my math was wrong, but he was being tongue in cheek and actually agreed with me the whole time, and explicitly came to the same mathematical concusion that I did. That didn't stop no less than three people (KDM, Iberica, and Mackinac) from kudoing his post, who obviously hadn't read his post all the way through and seen we were saying the same thing, and that he was simply taking it one step further and concluding that this was proof that the card was an even better value by comparing the redemption value to the earning rate of the card. Iberica even said, "The math is wrong", thanked NRB, and called him "a voice of reason" for "correcting" my math.. That gave me a hearty chuckle.

[onstar]

---

@Anonymous wrote:

First of all, I addressed the rack rate issue you proposed in post #145, which you never replied to. The long and short of it is, the $70 rate that somebody quoted was incorrect for several reasons. It wasn't considering weekend rates, and it was also including a bunch of discounts that require hefty annual fees (AARP and AAA) that I don't have (or even qualify for at my age). In other words, he was applying membership discounts that applied to him and not necessarily to everyone else. Furthermore, the going rate for last weekend was about $20 higher than this weekend, so that has to be considered as well.

---

You are still not understanding. Regardless of what any website says, most people here feel that the Baymont rooms are worth about $70/night at best. That's the value of those rooms, regardless of what wyndham.com says, regardless of what priceline says, regardless of what AAA/AARP discounts you can get. The general consensus here is that you should never value Baymont rooms at $150. If you're going to keep using $150 as the nightly rate, then the answer (math) will always be wrong.

BTW, Super 8 rooms at worth about $8.88/night. So if I the website says $99, and the Go Fast rate turns out to be 3000 points + $9, then the redemption value is not $90/3000 points = 3 cents per point. This is voodoo math. The redemption value is $0 (it's actually negative but I'll round it up to zero). This is the correct math.

[core]

---

@onstar wrote:

(2) I gave you my Residence Inn example. Just because I found a room for 15,000 points that was listed for $299 does not mean that Marriott points are worth 2 cents per point.

---

I would tend to agree with this, however... How is this different from a person redeeming for a hiked-up airline first class upgrade (that they never would have paid cash price for in a million years) using MR points and claiming to get so many cents per point?  It's obviously not really worth that price to them or they would have been paying cash for these upgrades on every previous flight.  The comfort is certainly of a certain value, but not the $5k price or whaver is listed on the site.  Not to them, anyway.  And upgrades can be had for substantial discounts if you're willing to jump through some hoops or take gambles.  Why are there no shouts of "That upgrade was only worth $50, you got scammed out of your MR points, man."?

If you want to talk about points valuation fibs, that's where I'd start.  There seems to be a double standard here.  Airline upgrade redemptions we're allowed to use quoted prices without discounts, yielding seriously inflated point values, but for Wyndham hotels, we're not?  At least in this case it sounds like the OP may have paid the Priceline price for this room if points were not available.  Maybe.

[jsucool76]

I'm gonna jump in here.

a) residence Inn is considered an upscale extended stay hotel. in no way does that relate to a baymont or really any other property in the Wyndham portfolio.

b) no one should be using Wyndham points to stay in a baymont or a Knights Inn or any of that. there are some really nice Wyndham resort around the world which can be fairly pricey, and when you take those for 15,000 points is when you start getting your value.

c) this rewards program can be very lucrative, but it doesn't compare to any other rewards programs for hotels. most people won't be willing to stay in most of Wyndham's properties,but rather just the upper end large hotels and resorts. I know I would never use 15,000 points for a $37 room at a Knights Inn. lol.

[Anonymous]

---

@onstar wrote:

---

@Anonymous wrote:

First of all, I addressed the rack rate issue you proposed in post #145, which you never replied to. The long and short of it is, the $70 rate that somebody quoted was incorrect for several reasons. It wasn't considering weekend rates, and it was also including a bunch of discounts that require hefty annual fees (AARP and AAA) that I don't have (or even qualify for at my age). In other words, he was applying membership discounts that applied to him and not necessarily to everyone else. Furthermore, the going rate for last weekend was about $20 higher than this weekend, so that has to be considered as well.

---

You are still not understanding. Regardless of what any website says, most people here feel that the Baymont rooms are worth about $70/night at best. That's the value of those rooms, regardless of what wyndham.com says, regardless of what priceline says, regardless of what AAA/AARP discounts you can get. The general consensus here is that you should never value Baymont rooms at $150. If you're going to keep using $150 as the nightly rate, then the answer (math) will always be wrong.

BTW, Super 8 rooms at worth about $8.88/night. So if I the website says $99, and the Go Fast rate turns out to be 3000 points + $9, then the redemption value is not $90/3000 points = 3 cents per point. This is voodoo math. The redemption value is $0 (it's actually negative but I'll round it up to zero). This is the correct math.

---

If that's your argument, that is even easier to address. While it may be true that a normal night at that particular hotel is substantially less than $150/night, the rate was for a weekend near the beach in July -- of course the rate's going to be jacked up. Almost all the rates in the area in this situation will be. Regardless of how you or anyone else feels about the quality of the rooms, that doesn't change the fact that the dates and specific location can both be important factors that override the perceived quality of the hotel. It's the same reason that hotel rates during Spring Break are absurd -- try finding a Super 8 in Panama City during Spring Break for less than $150.

And while I personally agree that in general redeeming points for a Super 8 is overall not going to be an advantageous strategy, if that $99 Super 8 happens to be near a popular beach on a weekend in July, then what you call "voodoo" math is completely subjective.  This whole beach-weekend-in-July thing is the situation we have been discussing, we should do the same in this example and compare apples to apples. For many people, that rate for a beachside property on a seasonable Saturday night in July would be a bargain (I know it would for me!) and redeeming that at 3 cents per point may actually be a good deal in this case after all. If this were a completely normal Wednesday in Eddyville, Iowa, in September, then I could see your point, but that simply just wasn't the case here.