cancel
Showing results for 
Search instead for 
Did you mean: 

The death of reward credit cards?

tag
trumpet-205
Valued Contributor

Re: The death of reward credit cards?


@Open123 wrote:

@drkaje wrote:

@Open123 wrote:

@drkaje wrote:

I'm pretty certain any establishment with a surcharge sign will not get my business.


Amazingly, for shopowners, all it'll take are a few people who leave or refuse to buy to sway them.

 

Last year, there was a restaurant I frequented who refused to take Amex.  When told of this, I just left (not to make a point, but I didn't have cash or any other cards with me).  It was a party of around 10!

 

A few months ago, I suddenly see the Amex blue banner at the same restaurant.  Maybe a coincidence, but no retailers enjoy losing out on revenue.  As consumers, our loudest voice is how and where we decide to spend our hard earned money.


I believe you're right.

 

We go to a few, small cash-only places. They've been around forever and have great stuff but it's still a pain because I rarely carry cash and have to plan spending in advance. We've been eating at one place so long the owner actually let us pay later (or the next day) one time when I forgot my wallet, LOL!

 


There are certainly "cash only" restaurants that are well worth the effort to pay the old fashioned way.  

 

Where I fail to understand are restaurants who take V/MC/Disc, but no Amex.  All for 0.5% - 1% more?  On my personal spending, this is fine since I usually have other cards; but, for my business spending, Amex is preferred by my firm.  

 

We won't host company events at establishments who don't or won't take Amex.  


You know, how come Square or similar credit card processing isn't popular with small businesses like restaurants? Flat fee for all 4 payment networks.

 

Message 21 of 55
Open123
Super Contributor

Re: The death of reward credit cards?


@trumpet-205 wrote:

You know, how come Square or similar credit card processing isn't popular with small businesses like restaurants? Flat fee for all 4 payment networks.

 


Recently, I have seen more Square around some restaurants.  I think it's great and hope more eateries will utilize it.

Message 22 of 55
Anonymous
Not applicable

Re: The death of reward credit cards?

The cost of using cards gets added to the price, it has to, it's simple accounting.  With retailers most will give a good discount for cash (I have had over 10% discount for cash, 5% is common) much better than any rewards card.

 

For restaurants you don't get cash back, but restaurants are the #1 place for credit card number theft.  I am more than happy to pay a few extra pennies to avoid the hassle of dealing with fraudulent charges on my card.

Message 23 of 55
nickn86
Contributor

Re: The death of reward credit cards?


@Open123 wrote:

@trumpet-205 wrote:

You know, how come Square or similar credit card processing isn't popular with small businesses like restaurants? Flat fee for all 4 payment networks.

 


Recently, I have seen more Square around some restaurants.  I think it's great and hope more eateries will utilize it.


I've actually been wondering how Square will affect rewards.  If all payments go through Square, will they actually be categorized?  If all Square purchases fall under the same category, it could change how a lot of category-based reward programs work.

 

I know in one of Amex T&C's they mention mobile payment as being an exception to some thing in some way.  But I can't remember what the context was.

Chase Sapphire Preferred - 5.6k (3/13) | Amex Premier Rewards Gold - NPSL (1/13) | Chase United MileagePlus Explorer Visa Signature - 9k (1/13) | Amex Delta Gold - 6k (9/12) | Citi Forward Visa - 10k (10/12) | Discover It - 2k (2/12) | Chase +1 Visa - $300 (2/11)
Message 24 of 55
pdog661
Frequent Contributor

Re: The death of reward credit cards?


@Open123 wrote:

@drkaje wrote:

@Open123 wrote:

@drkaje wrote:

I'm pretty certain any establishment with a surcharge sign will not get my business.


Amazingly, for shopowners, all it'll take are a few people who leave or refuse to buy to sway them.

 

Last year, there was a restaurant I frequented who refused to take Amex.  When told of this, I just left (not to make a point, but I didn't have cash or any other cards with me).  It was a party of around 10!

 

A few months ago, I suddenly see the Amex blue banner at the same restaurant.  Maybe a coincidence, but no retailers enjoy losing out on revenue.  As consumers, our loudest voice is how and where we decide to spend our hard earned money.


I believe you're right.

 

We go to a few, small cash-only places. They've been around forever and have great stuff but it's still a pain because I rarely carry cash and have to plan spending in advance. We've been eating at one place so long the owner actually let us pay later (or the next day) one time when I forgot my wallet, LOL!

 


There are certainly "cash only" restaurants that are well worth the effort to pay the old fashioned way.  

 

Where I fail to understand are restaurants who take V/MC/Disc, but no Amex.  All for 0.5% - 1% more?  On my personal spending, this is fine since I usually have other cards; but, for my business spending, Amex is preferred by my firm.  

 

We won't host company events at establishments who don't or won't take Amex.  


Very trye, try to get a good pizza in NYC with a credit card. 

Message 25 of 55
Anonymous
Not applicable

Re: The death of reward credit cards?

That's what I like to call greed, if everyone else is charging 2% so you can accept credit cards and run your business, why is AMEX charging almost 1.5% MORE for the very same service? They offer nothing over mastercard/visa/discover to both consumers or merchants. Rewards are equal at best and the whole charge card scheme is exactly that, nothing more than a scheme. Pay in full and you don't pay interest. or get a chase ink bold, and pay hundreds less for an annual fee, with rewards that are actually worth 1 penny across the board or more..try cashing in 10,000 points for $100 cash with AMEX, you'll get $50 if you're lucky

Message 26 of 55
pkosheta
Contributor

Re: The death of reward credit cards?

Amex users spend more on average than visa/MasterCard users And on more hi end goods.  High end goods usually have higher margins which helps cover the extra fees. Thus by accepting American Express Cards a business will have access to customers who put down bigger bucks On big profit items.  at least that's the company line.  Some amex card holders are fiercely loyal and won't shop at non-amex accepting stores Also.  I know one person like that and he has accumulated well over a million amex points in the last 10-15 years.  He is the customer they want in their stores and it takes Amex acceptance to get him in The door.

Age 29
AU- United+ Visa 33k, *97. GM MasterCard 15k, *95.
Individual- PenFed Plat Rew 7k, *08. Amex Blue 6.7k, *12. Hilton Amex 5.5k, *12. Chase Sapphire 15k, *12. U.S. Bank Cash+ 12.3k, *12. Barclays Priceline.com Rewards Visa 11k, *13. Citi DoubleCash (PC'd in *14) 7k, *13. Club Carlson Premier 9k, *13.
Message 27 of 55
navigatethis12
Valued Contributor

Re: The death of reward credit cards?


@pkosheta wrote:

Amex users spend more on average than visa/MasterCard users And on more hi end goods.  High end goods usually have higher margins which helps cover the extra fees. Thus by accepting American Express Cards a business will have access to customers who put down bigger bucks On big profit items.  at least that's the company line.  Some amex card holders are fiercely loyal and won't shop at non-amex accepting stores Also.  I know one person like that and he has accumulated well over a million amex points in the last 10-15 years.  He is the customer they want in their stores and it takes Amex acceptance to get him in The door.


That is the rubbish they spew to get people to accept the card, and it is not always correct. I know many people that have American Express cards that are very wealthy, but very frugal and shop at dollar stores and use coupons. If I have a computer that sells for 1000, it is a bit silly to believe that someone who has a Chase Freedom will not purchase it, but someone with an American Express Zync will. Personally, I ran through about 100,000 through PNC(Visa)  and Chase(Mastercards), but about $4000 through American Express cards issued through Centurion Bank.

Message 28 of 55
Walt_K
Senior Contributor

Re: The death of reward credit cards?

No one is saying there aren't examples of high spenders with other issuers. Amex historically is one of the smaller CCs based on number of cardholders, but at the upper end in terms of dollar volume of transactions. So notwithstanding individual cases to the contrary, on average their members spend more.

Starting Score: ~500 (12/01/2008)
Current Score: EQ 681 (04/05/13); TU 98 728 (01/06/12), TU 08? 760 (provided by Barclay 1/2/14), TU 04 728 (lender pull 01/12/12); EX 742 (lender pull 01/12/12)
Goal Score: 720


Take the FICO Fitness Challenge
Message 29 of 55
bs6054
Valued Contributor

Re: The death of reward credit cards?


@navigatethis12 wrote:

@pkosheta wrote:

Amex users spend more on average than visa/MasterCard users And on more hi end goods.  High end goods usually have higher margins which helps cover the extra fees. Thus by accepting American Express Cards a business will have access to customers who put down bigger bucks On big profit items.  at least that's the company line.  Some amex card holders are fiercely loyal and won't shop at non-amex accepting stores Also.  I know one person like that and he has accumulated well over a million amex points in the last 10-15 years.  He is the customer they want in their stores and it takes Amex acceptance to get him in The door.


That is the rubbish they spew to get people to accept the card, and it is not always correct. I know many people that have American Express cards that are very wealthy, but very frugal and shop at dollar stores and use coupons. If I have a computer that sells for 1000, it is a bit silly to believe that someone who has a Chase Freedom will not purchase it, but someone with an American Express Zync will. Personally, I ran through about 100,000 through PNC(Visa)  and Chase(Mastercards), but about $4000 through American Express cards issued through Centurion Bank.


Well, stats suggest that they spend more: 2011 figures from http://www.indexcreditcards.com/finance/creditcardstatistics/2011-report-on-credit-card-usage-facts-...

 

American Express has a much lower number of card holders, but compensates for it with an up-market focus. At 44 million U.S. cardholders, American Express not only trails Visa [111 million] and MasterCard [98 million], but is edged out by Discover at 45 million. However, in terms of average annual purchase volume, American Express transactions total roughly $11,300 per card holder, compared with Visa at $7,300, MasterCard at $5,250, and Discover at $2,500.

 


So the average Amex user is more valuable.  But of course there are many fewer of them, (so if you had to take just one it would be Visa!)

 

We know that Amex is really far from exclusive, we have people here getting the Green or higher charge cards with short history and very indifferent scores.   But the same is true with low-end (including secured) MC/Visa,  so Amex still wins average spend.

 

Edit: Walt_k got there first!

Message 30 of 55
Advertiser Disclosure: The offers that appear on this site are from third party advertisers from whom FICO receives compensation.