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Vanilla Reload Vs. MoneyPak?

Established Contributor

Re: Vanilla Reload Vs. MoneyPak?

  I just program for something like:  "Show me all customers with two or more purchases at CVS for more than $503.94  in a month for two months". or some similar parameters.   I don't even look at other spend.  Yes, I might catch a few innocents, but with proper tuning, almost everyone flagged is doing MS.

 

So what is the overture to this kind of detection?  You seem to recommend using CVS but then are saying that a script could pinpoint MS at CVS. 

 

 

 

Discover IT $19,000 == 12/2013
AMEX 12/2013 ---BCP $12,000 === BC $23,000 ----- 04/2014
CHASE SLATE $5,700 === 12/2013
BoA 123 $6000 === 12/2013
Barclay Rewards $1500 == 12/2013
Contributor

Re: Vanilla Reload Vs. MoneyPak?

Or you could just load the VR with a little less than $500 and avoid the $500+activation fee flag altogether.

Last App 12/8/13 - BoA Better Balance Rewards

Wallet: Discover IT $4500, Chase Freedom $3k, Citi Forward $3000, AmEx BCE $2k

Sock Drawer: Citi Diamond Preferred $10500, BoA BBR $7500, Citi Platinum Select $2200, AmEx Clear $2k, J.Crew $1850, US Bank Platinum $500

12/2013: TU = 763, EX = 791, EQ = ??
Valued Contributor

Re: Vanilla Reload Vs. MoneyPak?


Smiley HappyFico2Go wrote:

  I just program for something like:  "Show me all customers with two or more purchases at CVS for more than $503.94  in a month for two months". or some similar parameters.   I don't even look at other spend.  Yes, I might catch a few innocents, but with proper tuning, almost everyone flagged is doing MS.

 

So what is the overture to this kind of detection?  You seem to recommend using CVS but then are saying that a script could pinpoint MS at CVS. 

 

 

 


what he is saying is that you need to buy some soda or something else to throw off the sum purchased

Contributor

Re: Vanilla Reload Vs. MoneyPak?


juggalo9er wrote:

Smiley HappyFico2Go wrote:

  I just program for something like:  "Show me all customers with two or more purchases at CVS for more than $503.94  in a month for two months". or some similar parameters.   I don't even look at other spend.  Yes, I might catch a few innocents, but with proper tuning, almost everyone flagged is doing MS.

 

So what is the overture to this kind of detection?  You seem to recommend using CVS but then are saying that a script could pinpoint MS at CVS. 

 

 

 


what he is saying is that you need to buy some soda or something else to throw off the sum purchased


I don't think so.  He said "more than $503.94".. which implies the VR plus some random purchase.  The only people spending >$500 at CVS 2+ times a month are people doing MR... theoretically.

Last App 12/8/13 - BoA Better Balance Rewards

Wallet: Discover IT $4500, Chase Freedom $3k, Citi Forward $3000, AmEx BCE $2k

Sock Drawer: Citi Diamond Preferred $10500, BoA BBR $7500, Citi Platinum Select $2200, AmEx Clear $2k, J.Crew $1850, US Bank Platinum $500

12/2013: TU = 763, EX = 791, EQ = ??
Super Contributor

Re: Vanilla Reload Vs. MoneyPak?


w003ptr wrote:

juggalo9er wrote:

Smiley HappyFico2Go wrote:

  I just program for something like:  "Show me all customers with two or more purchases at CVS for more than $503.94  in a month for two months". or some similar parameters.   I don't even look at other spend.  Yes, I might catch a few innocents, but with proper tuning, almost everyone flagged is doing MS.

 

So what is the overture to this kind of detection?  You seem to recommend using CVS but then are saying that a script could pinpoint MS at CVS. 

 

 

 


what he is saying is that you need to buy some soda or something else to throw off the sum purchased


I don't think so.  He said "more than $503.94".. which implies the VR plus some random purchase.  The only people spending >$500 at CVS 2+ times a month are people doing MR... theoretically.


Right, buying extra things cuts or loading less than $500 decreases the efficiency, but as woo3ptr says, I am not looking at exact amounts (which is silly as they can be fudged) but at repeated spends above a certain amount.   I would guess that almost everyone spending say $10K a month for 3 months at a drug store is doing manufactued spend.

 

And I probably shouldn't have said CVS.   Substitute the drug store MCC.

Established Member

Re: Vanilla Reload Vs. MoneyPak?

Longtimelurker is right, it wouldn't be difficult to compile a script to report those kinds of spending patterns. And how many people have a legitimate reason to spend thousands of dollars at drug stores or 7/11 per month? I'm surprised MS isn't shutdown faster.
Moderator

Re: Vanilla Reload Vs. MoneyPak?

Select account_number from user_transactions
Where category = drugstore
And amount > $500

Fact is relational databases were designed exactly for this sort of query: and if I can write that off the top of my head from being a hack DBA twice in my career, it's a certain bet any lender can... And they can go to the item granularity of a gift card or similar item without much more query complexity.
Starting Score: EQ 5 561, TU 98 567, EX 2 599 (12/30/11)
Current Score: EQ 5 771, TU 4 758, EX 2 758, EQ 8 795, TU 8 762, EX 8 786 (7/28/17)
Goal Score:    EQ 5 750, TU 4 750, EX 2 750, EQ 8 800, TU 8 Blah, EX 8 800 (01/01/18)


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Super Contributor

Re: Vanilla Reload Vs. MoneyPak?

Manufactured spending with AmEx is a double edged sword.  With AmEx, MS expenditures disproportionately high relative to your stated income, may increase the likelihood of an FR.  Unlike other issuers who will likely allow it to continue, but just close the card when they've had enough, i.e., Chase will just shut down the card.

 

Since AmEx has a segment of cardmembers who spend $1 Million + in rewards per year, if you pass their FR, then you can MS spend unabated to a level commensurate with your income.   So long as you show income, they will continue you to MS spend to your heart's content.

 

 

 

 

Established Contributor

Re: Vanilla Reload Vs. MoneyPak?


Revelate wrote:
Select account_number from user_transactions
Where category = drugstore
And amount > $500

Fact is relational databases were designed exactly for this sort of query: and if I can write that off the top of my head from being a hack DBA twice in my career, it's a certain bet any lender can... And they can go to the item granularity of a gift card or similar item without much more query complexity.

Revelate is absolutely right. I don't know how many of you are in IT, but I am a consultant for IBM. Writing this sort of query or script is nothing for the brains sitting behind coding spend patterns and transactional systems.

Established Contributor

Re: Vanilla Reload Vs. MoneyPak?


ibmrad7 wrote:

I am seeing couple of new AMEX's in your signature.... Just want to give an honest suggestion. DON'T DO IT!!!!


Why would you not want to do it on AMEX, but other lenders would be OK with it?

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