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vizon
Posts: 139
Registered: ‎01-28-2012
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Von Maur Discriminating based on age

Was asked if I wanted to open a card recently and found this interesting -

 

If you ARE NOT 21 you have to send in paperwork to their underwriting and NO instant decision will be given. If you are 21+ you are eligible for an instant decision. Isn't this one of the reasons AMEX got in trouble? Who do you even report this to, because I thought a federal agency regulated this.

Valued Contributor
Dustink
Posts: 2,980
Registered: ‎10-02-2012
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Re: Von Maur Discriminating based on age

[ Edited ]

vizon wrote:

Was asked if I wanted to open a card recently and found this interesting -

 

If you ARE NOT 21 you have to send in paperwork to their underwriting and NO instant decision will be given. If you are 21+ you are eligible for an instant decision. Isn't this one of the reasons AMEX got in trouble? Who do you even report this to, because I thought a federal agency regulated this.


This is actually part of the card act. People under 21 have to verify their income.

 

US Bank was able to work around it for me, but most of the time you have to submit paper work or have a co-signer over 21

 

Age discrimination only applies for people over 40. Not for people under 21. It's not age discrimination to not allow somebody under 21 to drink. It is to protect them, just like the income verification is designed to protect them as well.

 

I was working to file a class action law suit against car rental companies for charging more to people under 21. My basis for the case was that if somebody under 21 carries insurance then they are no greater risk to the car rental company. The company is simply discriminated based on age to charge more fee's. The company is not at risk of loss, because the customer is already paying a premium on their insurance. The attorney's office backed out because he stated people over 40 are protected from age discrimination not persons under 21.

 

Too many INQs & low AAoA so I'm off to tend the Garden.     Age:21    


     $14k          $8.5K          $7.5k          $7.5k         $6.5k             $6k             $5k            $5k             $5k              $5k           NPSL       @ 0%
Valued Contributor
trumpet-205
Posts: 2,277
Registered: ‎11-11-2010
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Re: Von Maur Discriminating based on age

[ Edited ]

vizon wrote:

Was asked if I wanted to open a card recently and found this interesting -

 

If you ARE NOT 21 you have to send in paperwork to their underwriting and NO instant decision will be given. If you are 21+ you are eligible for an instant decision. Isn't this one of the reasons AMEX got in trouble? Who do you even report this to, because I thought a federal agency regulated this.


That is not discrimination. CARD Act requires lender to make sure those under 21 to have the ability to pay. Some will ask for income verification.

 


Dustink wrote:

I was working to file a class action law suit against car rental companies for charging more to people under 21. My basis for the case was that if somebody under 21 carries insurance then they are no greater risk to the car rental company. The company is simply discriminated based on age to charge more fee's. The company is not at risk of loss, because the customer is already paying a premium on their insurance. The attorney's office backed out because he stated people over 40 are protected from age discrimination not persons under 21.


You are assuming that each insurance company can cover the entire value. Let's say I have an insurance policy that covers $6,000 used car (typical for college kid). That insurance policy may not be enough for say $15,000 rental car. Plus a lot of insurance policies don't cover DUI, very typical among teenage driver. I think there is a lot more to it than simply because I want to charge more money.

 

Most rental car company avoids renting car to those under 25 anyway.

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Established Contributor
ChesterPDexter
Posts: 618
Registered: ‎06-18-2007
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Re: Von Maur Discriminating based on age

I thought you were going to say they discriminate against old people because they believe that old people have bad taste in clothing.

:smileyhappy:

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Established Contributor
cashnocredit
Posts: 1,009
Registered: ‎07-18-2009
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Re: Von Maur Discriminating based on age

The CARD act requires a written app if you are under 21.

 

The idea that it requires pay stubs or some other "verification" is widely believed and endlessly restated but it is wrong.

 

It doesn't actually require income "verification" beyond simply putting down your income and/or assets indicating an ability to make payments. Banks can choose more extensive "verification" but it is up to them. For people over 21 it doesn't even require that, though it does require something, even if it's just a statistical evaluation of a credit file that indicates a capacity to make payment.

 

 

I have reestablished credit over the last couple years
so my moniker is, well, rather out of date.

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Established Contributor
andre181
Posts: 624
Registered: ‎07-29-2010
0

Re: Von Maur Discriminating based on age

[ Edited ]

trumpet-205 wrote:

vizon wrote:

Was asked if I wanted to open a card recently and found this interesting -

 

If you ARE NOT 21 you have to send in paperwork to their underwriting and NO instant decision will be given. If you are 21+ you are eligible for an instant decision. Isn't this one of the reasons AMEX got in trouble? Who do you even report this to, because I thought a federal agency regulated this.


That is not discrimination. CARD Act requires lender to make sure those under 21 to have the ability to pay. Some will ask for income verification.

 


Dustink wrote:

I was working to file a class action law suit against car rental companies for charging more to people under 21. My basis for the case was that if somebody under 21 carries insurance then they are no greater risk to the car rental company. The company is simply discriminated based on age to charge more fee's. The company is not at risk of loss, because the customer is already paying a premium on their insurance. The attorney's office backed out because he stated people over 40 are protected from age discrimination not persons under 21.


You are assuming that each insurance company can cover the entire value. Let's say I have an insurance policy that covers $6,000 used car (typical for college kid). That insurance policy may not be enough for say $15,000 rental car. Plus a lot of insurance policies don't cover DUI, very typical among teenage driver. I think there is a lot more to it than simply because I want to charge more money.

 

Most rental car company avoids renting car to those under 25 anyway.


As someone who is under 25 but loves to travel, I HATE when I have to pay more for a rental car. My personal car insurance policy covers any car I drive, including rentals, and I pay with my American Express for their additional coverage. That should be enough! Honestly, I could even understand if the rental company required me to purchase their insurance and that would be reasonable because its only a couple of dollars a day, but some rental companies charge as much as $25/day if you are under 25. Its crazy! 

 

But there are some car rental coupon codes online, especially for Hertz that will waive the under 25 fee. Look on FlyerTalk. I prefer to rent from Budget, but if Hertz waives the fee, I'm going with them lol.

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Valued Contributor
Dustink
Posts: 2,980
Registered: ‎10-02-2012
0

Re: Von Maur Discriminating based on age

[ Edited ]

cashnocredit wrote:

The CARD act requires a written app if you are under 21.

 

The idea that it requires pay stubs or some other "verification" is widely believed and endlessly restated but it is wrong.

 

It doesn't actually require income "verification" beyond simply putting down your income and/or assets indicating an ability to make payments. Banks can choose more extensive "verification" but it is up to them. For people over 21 it doesn't even require that, though it does require something, even if it's just a statistical evaluation of a credit file that indicates a capacity to make payment.

 

 


I think the phrasing is something along the lines of "demonstrates an independent means of repaying the debt." As in, has a verifiable job via pay stubs or other verifiable means.

 

Too many INQs & low AAoA so I'm off to tend the Garden.     Age:21    


     $14k          $8.5K          $7.5k          $7.5k         $6.5k             $6k             $5k            $5k             $5k              $5k           NPSL       @ 0%
Valued Contributor
maiden_girl
Posts: 2,094
Registered: ‎12-29-2011
0

Re: Von Maur Discriminating based on age


andre181 wrote:

trumpet-205 wrote:

vizon wrote:

Was asked if I wanted to open a card recently and found this interesting -

 

If you ARE NOT 21 you have to send in paperwork to their underwriting and NO instant decision will be given. If you are 21+ you are eligible for an instant decision. Isn't this one of the reasons AMEX got in trouble? Who do you even report this to, because I thought a federal agency regulated this.


That is not discrimination. CARD Act requires lender to make sure those under 21 to have the ability to pay. Some will ask for income verification.

 


Dustink wrote:

I was working to file a class action law suit against car rental companies for charging more to people under 21. My basis for the case was that if somebody under 21 carries insurance then they are no greater risk to the car rental company. The company is simply discriminated based on age to charge more fee's. The company is not at risk of loss, because the customer is already paying a premium on their insurance. The attorney's office backed out because he stated people over 40 are protected from age discrimination not persons under 21.


You are assuming that each insurance company can cover the entire value. Let's say I have an insurance policy that covers $6,000 used car (typical for college kid). That insurance policy may not be enough for say $15,000 rental car. Plus a lot of insurance policies don't cover DUI, very typical among teenage driver. I think there is a lot more to it than simply because I want to charge more money.

 

Most rental car company avoids renting car to those under 25 anyway.


As someone who is under 25 but loves to travel, I HATE when I have to pay more for a rental car. My personal car insurance policy covers any car I drive, including rentals, and I pay with my American Express for their additional coverage. That should be enough! Honestly, I could even understand if the rental company required me to purchase their insurance and that would be reasonable because its only a couple of dollars a day, but some rental companies charge as much as $25/day if you are under 25. Its crazy! 

 

But there are some car rental coupon codes online, especially for Hertz that will waive the under 25 fee. Look on FlyerTalk. I prefer to rent from Budget, but if Hertz waives the fee, I'm going with them lol.


I'm under 25 and I have experienced this in the past but a lot of rental agencies seem to be doing away with this. I know Hertz still charges it. I rent a majority of the time from Enterprise and they no longer charge the extra daily $15 fee for under 25. The only thing they don't allow me to do is rent utility vehicles due to my age (I can rent and drive a uhaul tho..lmao)...which is fine with me b/c I drive a compact anyway. The last time I rented, my own car was in the shop for 3 days and I was only charged 25 bucks a day. No company insurance...Have my own insurance and no under age fee.

 

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Creditaddict
Posts: 19,461
Registered: ‎10-23-2007
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Re: Von Maur Discriminating based on age

Von Maur is VERY CONSERVATIVE and that is because they own the credit card, they don't charge interest, they don't charge late fees, and for the most part of what I know from friends, they also don't sell off to collections or really pursue collections... but if you go back in or call down the road and want to settle up they will take your payment with open arms and "usually" open an account again.

With that said, they are SUPER small, and again SUPER conservative and they don't do anything without a HP but never really mention it... Im hoping they start to rethink this, I had it submitted to above credit department that 1. You may have the right to HP because I have an account with you but why not AT LEAST ask me if I want that to happen to get my purchase to go through, otherwise SP, you don't need anything that you can't get with SP.

additionally you will talk to basically the same people because they are so small! but nice part is they are 0% they will split your payments equal over 12 months if you spend over $500 and they report no limit to credit, "Charge Card" like Amex, so no counting in Util (TU in some cases will be different)

 

Most I think have been scooting around this under 21 issue, so little surprised to see it but being how conservative they are not that far of a reach to understand.

Good luck, keep us posted... almost ALL accounts start at $200 but I did have a friend many years ago open and then 10 month program a Burbuerry Laptop Bag that was $1100 and I was little shocked he had NO issues doing so.

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Valued Contributor
Dustink
Posts: 2,980
Registered: ‎10-02-2012
0

Re: Von Maur Discriminating based on age



You are assuming that each insurance company can cover the entire value. Let's say I have an insurance policy that covers $6,000 used car (typical for college kid). That insurance policy may not be enough for say $15,000 rental car. Plus a lot of insurance policies don't cover DUI, very typical among teenage driver. I think there is a lot more to it than simply because I want to charge more money.

 

Most rental car company avoids renting car to those under 25 anyway.


 

That is just simply incorrect. Collision coverage is collision coverage. The stated amount you may be referring to may be the liability coverage.

 

The rental company could simply require a deposit equal to the deductible and conformation that coverage is applicable to a rental car. Also, credit cards provide coverage for rental cars as well so they can simply require the charges be put on a credit card.

 

I have maintained my own insurance policy since I turned 18. That policy has always covered rental cars with a deductible on comp and collision of $100. With liability sufficient to cover a large accident and the persons in my vehicle.

 

I am able to provide documentations to a rental company that such coverages are in place, yet they are unwilling to waive the fee even though I am no additional risk to them.

Too many INQs & low AAoA so I'm off to tend the Garden.     Age:21    


     $14k          $8.5K          $7.5k          $7.5k         $6.5k             $6k             $5k            $5k             $5k              $5k           NPSL       @ 0%

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