Wells Fargo - bad experience

[Anonymous]

So I received a preapproval 24 months 0% balance transfer offer from BarclaysCard if finalized within the first 45 days. Applied and approved for 5k. Asked for CLI, immediately  increased to 15k. After a few days I initiated a BT of about 12k through the website and gave them my Wells Fargo Visa Account number (with a 5 Dollar balance). Reason being:  this is tied to a WF checking account, so I thought I could transfer the BT to my WF checking account and pay off a few miscellaneous smaller credit balances. Everything went smooth: money showed up at WF and the credit card showed a credit balance of 11995. When I tried to transfer to the WF checking account the system warned about the fees (because the transfer would be treated as a cash advance). So after a few days I walked into my WF branch and asked them to transfer the credit balance to my WF checking account and cited some (actual) .gov websites after I sensed initial pushback. Escalated to a manager who promised to help and initiate the transfer. Said, it would take a few days because they would have to make sure everything is legit due to the amount. I said sure why not. 2 weeks later the money disappeared from the WF credit card account, but never showed up on the WF checking account. One day, two days, three days, money still gone, not shown up anywhere, secure message to WF: their response: money was returned to the originating account. Immediate phone call trying to find out why was answered: we don't know. The reason is not provided in our computer system. But don't worry: within 10 business days the money should show up somehow somewhere. At the very last of the 10 days it really showed up again on back my Barclays card account. Unfortunately the 45 day period since account opening was over in the meantime, so I could not retry (asked Barclays if they would reinstate, they offered their standard 14.99%). Contacted Wells Fargo again to inquire **bleep** went wrong. At first they said yadda yadda, then they said fear of money laundering... When I said, I understand your concerns, but you never gave me a chance to prove that these funds were legit, they changed the story to "its explained in the t's and c's" - my question to where specifically was answered with " eehh..we will send a letter" . 2 weeks later received a BS letter from WF, stating that the account number was incorrect... Have moved my business away from WF and haven't used my newly opened Barclay card ever since. 

[DeeBee78]

What's the point? If you had just initiated the BT's from Barclay's you could have avoided the headache, no? 

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@Anonymous wrote:

So I received a preapproval 24 months 0% balance transfer offer from BarclaysCard if finalized within the first 45 days. Applied and approved for 5k. Asked for CLI, immediately  increased to 15k. After a few days I initiated a BT of about 12k through the website and gave them my Wells Fargo Visa Account number (with a 5 Dollar balance). Reason being:  this is tied to a WF checking account, so I thought I could transfer the BT to my WF checking account and pay off a few miscellaneous smaller credit balances. Everything went smooth: money showed up at WF and the credit card showed a credit balance of 11995. When I tried to transfer to the WF checking account the system warned about the fees (because the transfer would be treated as a cash advance). So after a few days I walked into my WF branch and asked them to transfer the credit balance to my WF checking account and cited some (actual) .gov websites after I sensed initial pushback. Escalated to a manager who promised to help and initiate the transfer. Said, it would take a few days because they would have to make sure everything is legit due to the amount. I said sure why not. 2 weeks later the money disappeared from the WF credit card account, but never showed up on the WF checking account. One day, two days, three days, money still gone, not shown up anywhere, secure message to WF: their response: money was returned to the originating account. Immediate phone call trying to find out why was answered: we don't know. The reason is not provided in our computer system. But don't worry: within 10 business days the money should show up somehow somewhere. At the very last of the 10 days it really showed up again on back my Barclays card account. Unfortunately the 45 day period since account opening was over in the meantime, so I could not retry (asked Barclays if they would reinstate, they offered their standard 14.99%). Contacted Wells Fargo again to inquire **bleep** went wrong. At first they said yadda yadda, then they said fear of money laundering... When I said, I understand your concerns, but you never gave me a chance to prove that these funds were legit, they changed the story to "its explained in the t's and c's" - my question to where specifically was answered with " eehh..we will send a letter" . 2 weeks later received a BS letter from WF, stating that the account number was incorrect... Have moved my business away from WF and haven't used my newly opened Barclay card ever since. 

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[-Cal-]

Sorry you missed out on your BT. I'm not aware of any banks that allow you to transfer funds from your credit account to a deposit account unless it was in a form of a cash back reward. It seems like they count non-purchase transactions on your credit account as cash advances.

You probably would have better luck asking Barclays to send you some BT checks then deposit to your account. Another alternative would be paying your other bills with Barlcay's BT. 

[NRB525]

Sorry to hear about the troubles OP, I guess a learning experience.

The better choice would have been to just take three of the larger Other Credit Cards and BT them directly through the Barclays offer. The whole "convert to cash" thing, as pointed out, unless explicitly set up as a cash deposit, raises red flags. A credit card with a large customer credit isn't normal.

I would suggest WF is not the issue here; the transaction attempt was something they could not legally handle, and no bank could legally handle it, so WF is in the clear. I say no bank could leagally handle it because it exceeds $10k, the amount all banks are required to report to the Feds when a large deposit occurs. Consider the bank report: Feds worksheet: "Describe for us the source of the funds your customer obtained for deposit" WF: "Um, he got a large negative amount on his credit card somehow and we were trying to give him cash for it?" Bank examiner, seeing a two week examination opportunity: "Please provide the entire history tracing the money to it's source".

[Anonymous]

As a matter of fact I am not at all blaming Barclays, and WF only so much as to not properly explaining what was going on, and not providing any legitimate reason why they returned the money without at least trying to work with me. Lesson learnt I guess... I did have a plan B in place and didn't really need that BT, just thinking what would have been if I would have really been dependent on that BT. That's why I thought I'd share with the community.

[B335is]

Banks are and have been extremely cautious with anything that remotely looks suspicious since 2008. In most cases there is no opportunity for explanation and the bank take unilateral action (as they did with you). At the end of the day they're going to look out for themselves. I do understand what you were trying to do and sorry it didn't materialize the way you were hoping.

[icyhot]

I'm surprised Barclays let you do a BT of that amount to an account with a $5 balance, but I suppose they have no way of knowing what the balance will be

[bobbay]

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@B335is wrote:
Banks are and have been extremely cautious with anything that remotely looks suspicious since 2008. In most cases there is no opportunity for explanation and the bank take unilateral action (as they did with you). At the end of the day they're going to look out for themselves. I do understand what you were trying to do and sorry it didn't materialize the way you were hoping.

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google "wells fargo aml" it is more of an audit item for this than anything else

[bobbay]

FYI, to do this you would have needed to put your cheching account info in for the BT and use the central processing address they have listed.  This is how I have done this.

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@Anonymous wrote:

So I received a preapproval 24 months 0% balance transfer offer from BarclaysCard if finalized within the first 45 days. Applied and approved for 5k. Asked for CLI, immediately  increased to 15k. After a few days I initiated a BT of about 12k through the website and gave them my Wells Fargo Visa Account number (with a 5 Dollar balance). Reason being:  this is tied to a WF checking account, so I thought I could transfer the BT to my WF checking account and pay off a few miscellaneous smaller credit balances. Everything went smooth: money showed up at WF and the credit card showed a credit balance of 11995. When I tried to transfer to the WF checking account the system warned about the fees (because the transfer would be treated as a cash advance). So after a few days I walked into my WF branch and asked them to transfer the credit balance to my WF checking account and cited some (actual) .gov websites after I sensed initial pushback. Escalated to a manager who promised to help and initiate the transfer. Said, it would take a few days because they would have to make sure everything is legit due to the amount. I said sure why not. 2 weeks later the money disappeared from the WF credit card account, but never showed up on the WF checking account. One day, two days, three days, money still gone, not shown up anywhere, secure message to WF: their response: money was returned to the originating account. Immediate phone call trying to find out why was answered: we don't know. The reason is not provided in our computer system. But don't worry: within 10 business days the money should show up somehow somewhere. At the very last of the 10 days it really showed up again on back my Barclays card account. Unfortunately the 45 day period since account opening was over in the meantime, so I could not retry (asked Barclays if they would reinstate, they offered their standard 14.99%). Contacted Wells Fargo again to inquire **bleep** went wrong. At first they said yadda yadda, then they said fear of money laundering... When I said, I understand your concerns, but you never gave me a chance to prove that these funds were legit, they changed the story to "its explained in the t's and c's" - my question to where specifically was answered with " eehh..we will send a letter" . 2 weeks later received a BS letter from WF, stating that the account number was incorrect... Have moved my business away from WF and haven't used my newly opened Barclay card ever since. 

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[CH-7-Mission-Accomplished]

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@NRB525 wrote:

Sorry to hear about the troubles OP, I guess a learning experience.

The better choice would have been to just take three of the larger Other Credit Cards and BT them directly through the Barclays offer. The whole "convert to cash" thing, as pointed out, unless explicitly set up as a cash deposit, raises red flags. A credit card with a large customer credit isn't normal.

I would suggest WF is not the issue here; the transaction attempt was something they could not legally handle, and no bank could legally handle it, so WF is in the clear. I say no bank could leagally handle it because it exceeds $10k, the amount all banks are required to report to the Feds when a large deposit occurs. Consider the bank report: Feds worksheet: "Describe for us the source of the funds your customer obtained for deposit" WF: "Um, he got a large negative amount on his credit card somehow and we were trying to give him cash for it?" Bank examiner, seeing a two week examination opportunity: "Please provide the entire history tracing the money to it's source".

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This is incorrect in terms of reporting cash transactions of 10K or more.  This applies only to cash (the green stuff) and travelers' checks.  If banks had to report electronic transfers between accounts that were 10K or more they would do nothing but write reports all day long.  This was not a cash transfer.  Had OP walked into the branch and received 10K in hundred dollar bills from his credit card with a credit balance, that would be reported.

Money laundering is the concern with large overpayments on accounts.  Most lenders will allow, at most, a 10% overpayment on a credit card before rejecting it.  This is 10% over and above the current balance.

http://www.amlabc.com/aml-category/aml-basics/some-hypothetical-cases-of-credit-cards-abused-for-mon...