What makes a credit card "prime" and should I care?

[Wolf3]

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@Razeus wrote:

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@Wolf3 wrote:

IMO,  American Express is no longer Prime.

If you have to go through FR, frozen or closed accounts whenever there is a hiccup on your CR.   It is not reliable, hence not prime.

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You're crazy.  They are just protecting themselves, and that's why they have the lowerst default rates.  Show me another issuer who will give you NPSL on a member who doesn't have any history with them and just applied 60 seconds ago?  There's no absurd fees associated with AMEX, and they certainly don't try to hide it.

AMEX is the very definiation of prime.

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So you prefer a creditor who will give instant credit and NPSL to someone with no history, but will close it instantly whenever something looks wrong on the CR.   And then wants your tax returns?

Amex does have very high AF on many cards, not sure how not hiding it helps.

If they don't have your back, they are not "prime".

[Razeus]

Yes.  This means they are not taking damn near anyone and if they make a bad call, they take measures to minimize losses.  So what if it's instant?  There system probably crunches a lot of numbers to determine how to grant someone an NPSL.  

Sub primes want your fees in exchange for "restablishing credit".  AMEX has high fees, but they give you much better services than First Premier.  And there are certainly not going to charge a monthly fee and a setup fee reducing your CL by 50% before you even get the damn thing.

[Link2k]

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@CreditScholar wrote:

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@frugalQ wrote:
Considering all of the different POV's above, it's safe to say that prime/subprime is in the eye of the beholder.....just like beauty.

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Completely disagree. Some cards are frankly lousy and obviously subprime. Others aren't. There is a grey area, but to say that everything is subjective and dependant on the individual simply isn't true.

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Terms on the card dop not determine the classic definition of prim vs. subprime. Prime vs subprime is based solely on lending standards and frugalQ is completely right about it being in the eye of the beholder (lending institution).

When you apply for a card the institution uses your information to define your likelihood of default. Prime refers to customers that are rated as first or best, in other words least likely to default. 

Prime is an underwriting term it has absolutely nothing to do with rewards and it shouldn't matter whether the lending institution considers you prime or not. Whether an institution considers you prime or not is based on their own internal  underwriting standards which very by instituion (generally FICO's from 720-760, but even that is not a set standard), hence prime is in the eye of the beholder.

The very idea of internal underwriting terms being discussed by consumers is non sensical to me.

If your car insurance considers you a preferred risk but charges you more for the same coverage and less benefits than a company who considers you a standard risk do you care about their internal risk calculations and underwriting criteria?

What if one insurance company won't even accept you based on their risk assessment and another defines you as non standard but gives you a competitive rate?

[Wolf3]

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@Razeus wrote:

Yes.  This means they are not taking damn near anyone and if they make a bad call, they take measures to minimize losses.  So what if it's instant?  There system probably crunches a lot of numbers to determine how to grant someone an NPSL.  

Sub primes want your fees in exchange for "restablishing credit".  AMEX has high fees, but they give you much better services than First Premier.  And there are certainly not going to charge a monthly fee and a setup fee reducing your CL by 50% before you even get the damn thing.

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You are seriosly setting the standard that anything better than First Premiere is Prime?  That is 99.99% of the cards out there are prime.   By that standard, AMEX would qualify.      

[jamie123]

Back to my qualifications of a prime card...

I think to be considered a prime lender a CC company would have to have the following characteristics:

1. Have a nationwide presence.

2. Will be known to advance 20K+ credit lines regularly to qualified customers.

3. Variable interest rates depending on the individual customer's credit portfolio.

4. Customer service that ranks either good or great.

5. Justification for annual fees or no annual fees.

I think this limits the ranks of prime banks in the USA to the following:

AMEX

Bank of America

Chase

CitiBank

Wells Fargo

Discover

Barclays (Maybe)

And these credit unions:

NFCU

USAA

PenFed

Some cards just don't meet these criteria. Have you ever heard of a Cap1 customer with a 20K+ credit line? Nope. Cap1's customer service rated good or great? Nope.

Even NFCU does much better. Nationwide presence? Yes. 20K+ credit lines? Yes. Variable interest rates? Yes. Good customer service? Yes. Justification for annual fees or no annual fees? Yes.

How about Barclays?

20K+ credit lines? Maybe. Good customer service? Nope. (Cutting credit lines because you opened new cards is not good customer service! Who else regularly does this?)

AMEX is trying to broaden their base with the Zync. They are in business to make money. The upcoming generation faces many challenges that previous generations never had to deal with. Not getting hired out of college? Unheard of 10 years ago. They HAVE to change to survive with the up and coming generation.

[Wolf3]

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@jamie123 wrote:

Back to my qualifications of a prime card...

I think to be considered a prime lender a CC company would have to have the following characteristics:

1. Have a nationwide presence.

2. Will be known to advance 20K+ credit lines regularly to qualified customers.

3. Variable interest rates depending on the individual customer's credit portfolio.

4. Customer service that ranks either good or great.

5. Justification for annual fees or no annual fees.

I think this limits the ranks of prime banks in the USA to the following:

AMEX

Bank of America

Chase

CitiBank

Wells Fargo

Discover

Barclays (Maybe)

And these credit unions:

NFCU

USAA

PenFed

Some cards just don't meet these criteria. Have you ever heard of a Cap1 customer with a 20K+ credit line? Nope. Cap1's customer service rated good or great? Nope.

Even NFCU does much better. Nationwide presence? Yes. 20K+ credit lines? Yes. Variable interest rates? Yes. Good customer service? Yes. Justification for annual fees or no annual fees? Yes.

How about Barclays?

20K+ credit lines? Maybe. Good customer service? Nope. (Cutting credit lines because you opened new cards is not good customer service! Who else regularly does this?)

AMEX is trying to broaden their base with the Zync. They are in business to make money. The upcoming generation faces many challenges that previous generations never had to deal with. Not getting hired out of college? Unheard of 10 years ago. They HAVE to change to survive with the up and coming generation.

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I think your (1) Nationwide presence is a ridiculous consideration.   

US Bank doesn't make the list because they are not in all states. 

You would exlude all the other thousands of CU who may have just as good of terms and service but are local or only in a few states?

Interesting that rewards, and perks don't count on your list.  So a simple, no rewards, low CL card is prime on your list as long as it is from you list of banks.

[Crashem]

Off the top of my head, the only true prime cards I know of are:

Penfed plat rewards

Simmons First plat visa at 7.25% apr

They are both best in class in terms rewards/terms and require ridiculous credit to obtain.

[Crashem]

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@Link2k wrote:

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@CreditScholar wrote:

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@frugalQ wrote:
Considering all of the different POV's above, it's safe to say that prime/subprime is in the eye of the beholder.....just like beauty.

---

Completely disagree. Some cards are frankly lousy and obviously subprime. Others aren't. There is a grey area, but to say that everything is subjective and dependant on the individual simply isn't true.

---

Terms on the card dop not determine the classic definition of prim vs. subprime. Prime vs subprime is based solely on lending standards and frugalQ is completely right about it being in the eye of the beholder (lending institution).

When you apply for a card the institution uses your information to define your likelihood of default. Prime refers to customers that are rated as first or best, in other words least likely to default. 

Prime is an underwriting term it has absolutely nothing to do with rewards and it shouldn't matter whether the lending institution considers you prime or not. Whether an institution considers you prime or not is based on their own internal  underwriting standards which very by instituion (generally FICO's from 720-760, but even that is not a set standard), hence prime is in the eye of the beholder.

The very idea of internal underwriting terms being discussed by consumers is non sensical to me.

If your car insurance considers you a preferred risk but charges you more for the same coverage and less benefits than a company who considers you a standard risk do you care about their internal risk calculations and underwriting criteria?

What if one insurance company won't even accept you based on their risk assessment and another defines you as non standard but gives you a competitive rate?

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+1 link2k is right.

[Wolf3]

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@Crashem wrote:

---

@Link2k wrote:

---

@CreditScholar wrote:

---

@frugalQ wrote:
Considering all of the different POV's above, it's safe to say that prime/subprime is in the eye of the beholder.....just like beauty.

---

Completely disagree. Some cards are frankly lousy and obviously subprime. Others aren't. There is a grey area, but to say that everything is subjective and dependant on the individual simply isn't true.

---

Terms on the card dop not determine the classic definition of prim vs. subprime. Prime vs subprime is based solely on lending standards and frugalQ is completely right about it being in the eye of the beholder (lending institution).

When you apply for a card the institution uses your information to define your likelihood of default. Prime refers to customers that are rated as first or best, in other words least likely to default. 

Prime is an underwriting term it has absolutely nothing to do with rewards and it shouldn't matter whether the lending institution considers you prime or not. Whether an institution considers you prime or not is based on their own internal  underwriting standards which very by instituion (generally FICO's from 720-760, but even that is not a set standard), hence prime is in the eye of the beholder.

The very idea of internal underwriting terms being discussed by consumers is non sensical to me.

If your car insurance considers you a preferred risk but charges you more for the same coverage and less benefits than a company who considers you a standard risk do you care about their internal risk calculations and underwriting criteria?

What if one insurance company won't even accept you based on their risk assessment and another defines you as non standard but gives you a competitive rate?

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+1 link2k is right.

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As you say Prime and SubPrime are used to designate customers.  That is why there is still a "Prime" rate of interest.    Although no credit card ever gets it.

This topic is "What makes a credit card "prime" and should I care?".    We are discussing what are the best cards from a customers perspective.

Prime is also used to discuss meat, but we are not talking about that either.

[Wolf3]

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@Crashem wrote:

Off the top of my head, the only true prime cards I know of are:

Penfed plat rewards

Simmons First plat visa at 7.25% apr

They are both best in class in terms rewards/terms and require ridiculous credit to obtain.

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Just the opposite of Razeus standard.  99.99% are not prime.