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Where not to use an AMEX card?

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Crashem
Valued Contributor

Re: Where not to use an AMEX card?

That story was during the height of the start of the great recession and cld/aa were being done by all issuers on many people. Typical paranoid stories mixing limited facts and lots of rumors to scare us into reading. While there may be some nuggets of truth in there, it's not something we need to worry about to much.
               LIMITS IN CARD DESCRIPTIONS
Message 41 of 50
Anonymous
Not applicable

Re: Where not to use an AMEX card?

People rent furniture? Thats a waste of money. lol I even consider buying brand new a waste. My current couch is great. Nice firm cushions, clean, only catch is there is a rip behind one of the cushions on the top. Bought it for 50 bucks from someone just wanting to get rid of it because they were getting a new couch. I am always happy to get perfectly fine hand me downs.

 

I got my first couch for free, all I had to do was clean all the dog hair off of it.

 

 

Afbar good to see you back. When did you get an AMEX green? I thought you had the Zync? Nice wallet you have now. You clean out all your store cards? Good to see you tending to your garden.

Message 42 of 50
FrugalRican
Blogger

Re: Where not to use an AMEX card?


@Crashem wrote:
That story was during the height of the start of the great recession and cld/aa were being done by all issuers on many people. Typical paranoid stories mixing limited facts and lots of rumors to scare us into reading. While there may be some nuggets of truth in there, it's not something we need to worry about to much.

+1,000

 

Look, if any of my cards don't like where I buy, they are more than welcome to close my card. I have a variety of other cards that would more than love to have that monthly spending be put on them. If AMEX doesn't like that I love to save money at Marshall's, Target, Wal-Mart, etc... they can go pound sand.

 

I've really yet to understand the fear of cards and what you can/can't do. Use your card. If it doesn't work, use the next one.

It's another reason to have more than one.

Follow my financial journey: http://www.frugalrican.com


EQ FICO (01/16/2012): 656 - EQ FICO (02/16/2012): 743 - EQ (02/24/2012): 760 - EX (04/28/2012): 739 - GOAL 2013: 800+

AMEX BCE (0/10K) --- BOA 1-2-3 (0/15.9K) --- Discover More (0/6K) --- Chase Freedom Visa (0/1.4K) -- Hyatt Visa Sign. (0/5.8K) -- Barclay's NFL Card (0/7.5K) -- Chase Sapphire Preferred (0/5K)

Message 43 of 50
jsickz32
Valued Contributor

Re: Where not to use an AMEX card?

Is it true they also dont like you using their cards at stripclubs and places like that?
Amex BCE (2500) / Amex SPG (4000) / Amex GoldPR / Merrill+ Visa siggy (5000) / BofA Amex (6000) / Bofa cash rewards (5000) / BofA Privileges Cash Rewards (5000) / Citi Forward (4400) / Citi DP (2000) / Chase Freedom (4000) / Chase CSP (5000) / Chase Hyatt (5000) / Discover IT (1700) / FNBO AMEX (3600) / NFCU cashRewards Visa signature (15000) / NFCU Flagship Visa signature (12500) / NFCU Navcheck (5000) / Nordstrom (500) / MetroCU Visa Elite (5000) / Walmart (4500) / Kays Jewerels (6600) / Kohls (300) / Macys Platinum (2500) / DCU platinum Visa (17500) / Citizens bank cash back (1100) / Bill Me Later (1631) / PayPal Smart connect (2200) / BestBuy store card (2000)
Message 44 of 50
cashnocredit
Valued Contributor

Re: Where not to use an AMEX card?

These Amex stories mostly date from 2008. If one looks at the default rates Amex was experiencing it had skyrocketed from a few percent to nearly 10%. Countrywide was the leader in subprime mortgages including no doc and negative amortization loans.

 

It wasn't rocket science for Amex to have looked at a creditor with a negative amortization (aka: pick a payment) Countrywide home loan opened in 2006 and promptly decide that this customer was one they preferred not to have.

 

What's missing in these stories was that Amex, and other creditors, could and did, easily discern the types of home mortgages customers had. It is fairly simple math to, with just 3 or 4 months of credit report history, determine the nature of a mortgage including interest rate, impounds, term, and for the worst loans, that the customer opted for a negative amortization temporary payment plan. This was, by late 2007, well understood as a huge risk factor in banking circles.

 

So when I read tjhese stories I chuckle. Lots of wealthy people shop at Walmart but they didn't take out high interest rate, no-doc or negative amortization mortgages.

 

Amex default rates are down near a 10 year low. Anyone interested learning more about Amex's card historical losses can find a ton of info on the SEC's Edgar database disclosures.

 

Walmart just opened a new Supercenter about 5 miles from where I live. First Walmart anywhere near me.  I went there for the first time yesterday with my Amex Plat. I don't leave home without it.

 


I have reestablished credit over the last couple years
so my moniker is, well, rather out of date.

WM Discover $1800, WF Plat 12k, Chase Freedom Siggy18k, Amex Plat (60k H/B), Citi AA EWMC 25k
Message 45 of 50
lanc
Regular Contributor

Re: Where not to use an AMEX card?

I bought a weed eater from a pawn shop once and decided crap1 would be the best card with no AA Smiley Happy

Message 46 of 50
HoldingOntoHope
Valued Contributor

Re: Where not to use an AMEX card?


@jsickz32 wrote:
Is it true they also dont like you using their cards at stripclubs and places like that?

You can charge your admission on it but don't give it away for the dancer to add a tip.Smiley Wink

Best financial advice I ever got: "Just imagine what an adult would do and do that."

Starting Score: 500's
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Message 47 of 50
p-
Valued Contributor

Re: Where not to use an AMEX card?


@cashnocredit wrote:

These Amex stories mostly date from 2008. If one looks at the default rates Amex was experiencing it had skyrocketed from a few percent to nearly 10%. Countrywide was the leader in subprime mortgages including no doc and negative amortization loans.

 

It wasn't rocket science for Amex to have looked at a creditor with a negative amortization (aka: pick a payment) Countrywide home loan opened in 2006 and promptly decide that this customer was one they preferred not to have.

 

What's missing in these stories was that Amex, and other creditors, could and did, easily discern the types of home mortgages customers had. It is fairly simple math to, with just 3 or 4 months of credit report history, determine the nature of a mortgage including interest rate, impounds, term, and for the worst loans, that the customer opted for a negative amortization temporary payment plan. This was, by late 2007, well understood as a huge risk factor in banking circles.

 

So when I read tjhese stories I chuckle. Lots of wealthy people shop at Walmart but they didn't take out high interest rate, no-doc or negative amortization mortgages.

 

Amex default rates are down near a 10 year low. Anyone interested learning more about Amex's card historical losses can find a ton of info on the SEC's Edgar database disclosures.

 

Walmart just opened a new Supercenter about 5 miles from where I live. First Walmart anywhere near me.  I went there for the first time yesterday with my Amex Plat. I don't leave home without it.

 


+1

 

Pretty much in line with what I was about to write.  It's reasonable for Amex to try to mitigate losses by not lending to high risk groups.  Yes, not everyone in a high risk group is actually going to default, but more will.  It's good business sense to confine your lending to lower risk groups, and charge more to offset the risk when you lend to high risk groups.

 

That's why credit reporting exists in the first place.  Anyone who thinks that is so wrong should start their own lending institution, using a different set of "fair" criteria, and see how far they get.  Assuming you can get the investors to bankroll the whole thing, how long before you're broke?

Message 48 of 50
Cdnewmanpac
Established Contributor

Re: Where not to use an AMEX card?

I think the other reason these stories tend to occur more often with Amex is that Amex is both a lender and a network. This gives them access not only to all their cardmember data, but all their network and merchant data as well. This essentially triples the datapoints they can add to their fraud detection algorithms. I honestly believe other lenders would behave EXACTLY like Amex if they had access to the same data. Visa and MC don't have the same incentives to collect all of this data because they do not have assets at risk. Other lenders don't have access to the merchant side because that data can reveal proprietary information. 

 

Plus, given that everyone I've read about on this forum lately who has been FR'd has passed and nobody has reported recent CLDs (in contrast to Chase in another recent thread), this may be an example of exception bias magnifying the perceived rate of occurrance.

In wallet: Ink Plus 10k, AMEX TE 25k. In bag: CSP 16k, USAA WMC 15k, Hyatt 13k, United MPE 12k, AMEX HHonors 3k. In SD: Cap 1 QS 5k, Discover IT 7k. FICO 08 says my EQ is now 844, was 510 in 2010.
Message 49 of 50
cashnocredit
Valued Contributor

Re: Where not to use an AMEX card?


@Cdnewmanpac wrote:

I think the other reason these stories tend to occur more often with Amex is that Amex is both a lender and a network. This gives them access not only to all their cardmember data, but all their network and merchant data as well. This essentially triples the datapoints they can add to their fraud detection algorithms. I honestly believe other lenders would behave EXACTLY like Amex if they had access to the same data. Visa and MC don't have the same incentives to collect all of this data because they do not have assets at risk. Other lenders don't have access to the merchant side because that data can reveal proprietary information. 

 

Plus, given that everyone I've read about on this forum lately who has been FR'd has passed and nobody has reported recent CLDs (in contrast to Chase in another recent thread), this may be an example of exception bias magnifying the perceived rate of occurrance.



This is certainly an advantage for Amex and to a lesser extent the large banks that can also aggregate a lot of consumer and merchant data. Amex's remarkably fast recovery from the high default rates in '08 and '09 likely benefited from this additional info. On the positive side this helps them extend a higher level of exposure to charge card members. That market is, in Amex's lingo, "spend centric" and providing the ability to charge large amounts is critical to both their transaction income business model and us consumer's need for flexible, high spending capability.

 

Presumably signature and world visa and mc cards are intended to provide some of this capability amongst traditional CC issuers but I have yet to see reports validating this nor have I tried personally to go over my CLs to test that aspect of traditional CCs.

 

I'd be interested in hearing from any that have used their NPSL visa or mc capabilities. It's largely unexplored territory.


I have reestablished credit over the last couple years
so my moniker is, well, rather out of date.

WM Discover $1800, WF Plat 12k, Chase Freedom Siggy18k, Amex Plat (60k H/B), Citi AA EWMC 25k
Message 50 of 50
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