@nyancat wrote:
@Callandra wrote:
@nyancat wrote:
@core wrote:
@Anonymous wrote:
Are we in that much of a hurry that typing in a PIN number is a big deal?No, not a "big" deal. But it is a small deal, and the fact that it inconveniences me even in the slightest just to protect the fat cat big banks doesn't sit too well with me. And since I don't exactly shop at Tiffany's, I'd rather not linger around the stores taking in the sights. Usually anyway. I wouldn't mind so much if you could just insert your card quickly and then put it away, and _then_ wait for all the communication and pin entry or whatever. That would be much better, if it didn't need the chip contact the entire time. It also wouldn't be so bad if you just had one lonely card in your jeans pocket. In a 5% cash back for everything world that one-card plan doesn't work out so well though.
It just takes a bit longer and it seems a lot longer because it's awkward waiting for the darn thing so you can have your card back. Besides, the faster I can get out of the store and back to my car, the sooner I can start sniffing the glue I just purchased.
Chip transactions take about two seconds longer to process than magnetic stripe transactions on a high-speed connection with modern equipment (there are more messages, and thus will take longer with complex, slow, or dial-up systems). The transaction time FEELS a bit longer than this because you are waiting with your card inserted the entire time instead of putting your card away while you wait for the slip to print.
PIN can EASILY save at least two seconds. A signature takes me at least 10 seconds, personally (grabbing the pen, getting a grip on the slip, handing the slip back to the cashier). Thus, the idea that chip and PIN causes slowdowns is bizarre.
And that's before you add in all the merchants (even in the US, tho worse in other countries) that demand ID for signature transactions, despite being against network rules. Then you're adding another 15-20 seconds (plus a good 30-45 second lecture on how it's against network rules, sometimes a request to talk to a manager in my case, and the time to file reports with Visa and Mastercard plus a complaint email to the business and on their Facebook and Twitter... in my case) that PIN eliminates.
I had a chip and PIN Visa back when I lived in Japan and I never found the transaction time to be -that- much longer. Although I don't have kids nor am I usually in any huge rush when I shop.
The card I had allowed me to pick the PIN when I applied for it (not sure if this applies for all Japan-issued cards though).
Most places I go to nowadays I don't even have to sign (Publix, Wal-Mart, Target if the transaction is under $50) and if I do, it's often on the electronic reader and not a printed slip. Either way, I think the transaction time is the same when you put in signing (I agree with you that the big difference is that you can put the swipe card away right away versus the card reader holding it for the PIN transaction).
I believe you aren't supposed to ask for ID unless the card is not signed (in that case, you are supposed to check ID, and make the person sign it right there before accepting it. I worked in many retails store and I have never made anyone do that and refusing a card at Target would be an instant write-up even if it was blatantly stolen or fraud. Yes, it's obvious when they try buying 5+ Visa prepaid cards). I think that's for Visa/MC? I'm not sure of the rules with Discover and Amex. However I do not blame stores/merchants for asking for ID as if it is a stolen card they will be out the cost of the item, inventory and a chargeback fee. I'm not sure what the online rules are. At the online business I work for, we have asked for copies of the card (front and back) and a copy of government issued ID (if they don't provide it, we just cancel and refund the transaction as legit people will most likely comply or at least respond to complain).
They won't be out anything if it's a stolen card, as long as they did their due diligence and verified signatures. Starting October 1, if it is a chip and PIN card and their terminal is chip and signature only they will be liable on MasterCard, American Express, and Discover (but not Visa). This, of course, means little as there are very few chip and PIN cards in the US.
A write-up for refusing a blatantly obviously stolen card? E.g. if the last four digits on the card doesn't match the receipt (as obvious as it gets that it is fake)? If that is really Target's attitude, shame on them.
I actually did get written up while working at Target. A couponer (read: coupon scammer) was trying to use the full value of the coupons and get money back on a transaction. There is no way for the register to give money back to the customer on a sale transaction (you get an error) and I tried to explain that to her. i was very polite but I had to tell her I couldn't give her $1 back, the lowest price for any sale transaction is $0. She got very angry at me, reached out to hit me (I dodged it) and she stomped off. Found a manager, complained about me (said I was rude and threatened her!!) and I was promptly written up. I was never questioned or anything, just a prompt write up. I quit soon after.
I heard of one cashier trying to refuse a card and they got written up.
The work around is really when the register prompts for the last 4 of the card (on larger CC transactions, it will do this, amount varies by store, from $200), you can just purposely key in the wrong last 4 (regardless of what's printed on the card) to get the transaction declined.
Quicksilver $10,000 | Better Balance Rewards $2000 | Sallie Mae $3500 | Freedom $3500
1) Consumer Protection (higher level of consumer protection when swiped only)
2) Consumer Convenience (US consumers carry/ use more CC's, inconvenient to remember/ process all PIN's)
3) Cost ( fraud is still cheaper than new equipment/ system)
My guess is that when #3 reason (Cost of Fraud) crosses the red line, we will finally move to Chip and PIN, if ever.