Why has the US not Moved to Chip & Pin?

[CreditCuriosity]

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@longtimelurker wrote:

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@core wrote:

Because as a cardholder, I want speed and convenience, not security.  I'm not on the hook if someone skims my credit card info, so why should I care?   It's not worth the extra 5-10 seconds per transaction it would take, and it most certainly is not worth having to remember 20+ different PINs for all the cards in your wallet.  Credit unions for example are notorious for not allowing you to select your own PIN.  No freaking thanks.

Credit card companies send out surveys for such things and they are going to be guided by what the customers want at least on some level.  I know I have filled many out myself over the last 6 months, and I told them exactly what I stated above.  I will avoid any chip & pin card like the plague _if_ it's required to use it in the US.

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I think the CU fixed PIN is partly the technology they went for.  Certainly elsewhere allows easy change of CHIP and PIN credit cards in an ATM

And people are used to PINs for ATMs and debit card transactions, so I'm not sure why this is considered so much worse.   Most people don't have lots of credit cards (or lots of bank accounts for that matter)

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unfortunately this community isn't the norm as you know

[Anonymous]

It's because they feel like consumers will think they are using debit cards and not spend as much.

[core]

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@longtimelurker wrote:
And people are used to PINs for ATMs and debit card transactions, so I'm not sure why this is considered so much worse.   Most people don't have lots of credit cards (or lots of bank accounts for that matter)

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Debit card?  What's that?  Oh wait, I think I remember what those were.  That's where you buy stuff and nobody gives you any rewards on the amount you spent, right?  (Except for companies like Perk St. who take off with people's cash after the game is up.)  And weren't those the cards where you not only have to swipe your card, but then you have to stand there touching a grubby keypad that some infant just vomited all over minutes before, how you're holding up the entire line typing in your PIN harder and harder trying to get the aging keypad numbers to register while the guy behind you in line is trying to fondle you and/or get your PIN?   Yeah, now I remember debit cards.  Can't say I miss 'em.

Most of the time I don't even have to sign for my credit card purchases unless it's a respectable dollar amount.  Just swipe and get the heck out of there.  That's the way it should be.  If the merchant does ask me to sign I make a quick horizontal line and hit submit.  Speed.  Speed is what it's all about.

ATMs I'm not too familiar with anymore either.  I know you used to be able to get this stuff called cash out of them but I doubt that's terribly useful these days.  You can make deposits with them I hear, but what's wrong with taking a snapshot of your check and depositing it that way?  It's actually much safer once you realize what kind of guys are servicing these machines.  I used to be in the ATM/security business and some of these characters you wouldn't want touching anything of yours, let alone your financial stuff.  These are people that should not be strapping on firearms each day, let me tell you that.

[Anonymous]

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@core wrote:

Because as a cardholder, I want speed and convenience, not security.  I'm not on the hook if someone skims my credit card info, so why should I care?   It's not worth the extra 5-10 seconds per transaction it would take, and it most certainly is not worth having to remember 20+ different PINs for all the cards in your wallet.  Credit unions for example are notorious for not allowing you to select your own PIN.  No freaking thanks.

Credit card companies send out surveys for such things and they are going to be guided by what the customers want at least on some level.  I know I have filled many out myself over the last 6 months, and I told them exactly what I stated above.  I will avoid any chip & pin card like the plague _if_ it's required to use it in the US.

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Exactly. Well stated. Already have too many PINs and passcodes to remember as it is.

Furthermore, another concern is the cardholder potentially facing a higher liability / more difficulty disputing a PIN transaction verses a signature transaction. It's the main reason I've never signed up for Verified by VISA and other similar programs. PINs don't necessarily make the transaction more secure. If anything, likely to cause the cardholder more trouble when disputing fradulent transactions, since the burden of proof may be higher. No thanks.

On a related note, how secure are PINs anyways... If the point of sale unit and/or network and/or processor bankend are compromised, how secure is the PIN then. Or barring that, the bad guys can simply go "old school" and capture one's PIN with a hidden camera. Unless cardholders are assured of still being as legally protected as they are now from fradulent transactions, many savvy cardholders will stick with what they have; opting for chip and signature.

[Anonymous]

well a lot of what what was said is accurate, but, based on my research, the biggest reasons are the change that we will all encounter. go to a supermarket... older generations can barely use the automated cashier thing.
another huge reason is cost. it'll cost billions to convert everything. the reason why is because we don't have 5 financial institutions like other countries; we have 5,000+
we have taken a decade to get the technology due to simply the cost vs the benefit. in October of 2015 we should all be chip and signature according to the financial laws of things. any merchant that doesn't offer chip and sig (if they still use old fashioned swipe) then THEY are responsible for the fraud cost, no longer the financial institution

[Anonymous]

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@CreditCuriousity wrote:

Problem is, not even with Chip and pin, just with chip and Signature... Is they need to be activated by Oct or the merchant has responsibility!  I don't understand why merchants aren't starting to get on board quicker as if I was a business owner, I wouldn't want to wait until the last minute to turn on the system and have something fail or whatever else could go wrong..  retailer's are fighting a losing battle IMO holding off until the last possible minute on implementing this.  Sad thing is The US Created MC/Visa/Amex and own them, yet we are 10-20 years behind the rest of the civilized world on technology due to many reasons as poster above stated and obviosuly cost reasons as well.

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This X 12!!! Come october theres gonna be a huge panic with small business owners who begin losing loads of money to fraudsters especially who probably have a gameplan in place for this kind of thing. Ive been telling small business owners about this for a year but they always have 99 reasons why they are ok for now. Its like they dont really believe it until something happens to them. 

[core]

Well come October, I will be rewarding small businesses who don't have chip&sig my business.  Will all the extra business make up for one nasty fraudster?  That I don't know, but then we don't get a lot of fraud around here where I live so maybe.  Chip & sig isn't nearly as bad as having to remember/enter all those PINs, but it still ain't exactly pleasant sitting there waiting for the machine to chomp on your card for 30+ seconds while you're trying to juggle a wallet and an armful of grocery sacks, just waiting for that little beep saying you can take back your card and resume putting your wallet and junk away, and collecting/beating the kids which have now scattered in all directions because you've been sitting there playing patty cake with a card reader instead of a 200 millisecond quick swipe.  That is annoying as heck.

With the increased transaction time, Walmart is going to have to open up some more of those gazillion lanes they never have open.  Back when Walmart was temporarily playing the chip&sig game it was bad enough with just a few CC companies participating.  Can you imagine all of them?  25%+ reduction in throughput at least, I'd estimate.  There's a reason Walmart stopped playing ball.  And it isn't entirely because consumers are idiots.  The whole idea is flawed, it's slow, and it just sucks all around.

[Anonymous]

The teller at my credit union told me they won't be getting chips in their cards until after "all the other big banks" have converted their cards to chip cards and everyone gets the kinks out. I told her about October 2015 deadline and she seemed to have no idea what I was talking about. Crazy.

[Anonymous]

tellers never know lol. and core, fraud happens everywhere sir. look at target. that was nation wide. it happens and it's easy. if i were screwed up in the head i could open a PO box with a fake ID and fake address, open cards under my ex wife's name and rack them up in places without cameras and go out of my area so it doesn't trace back to me easily.

[core]

Yes, I suppose fraud can happen everywhere, but online is one of the best/safest places to do it.  None of these ridiculous security approaches will do anything about that.  The safest approach is Citi's.  They just decline the charge whenever you try to use it for anything, anything at all.  I bet they don't get much fraud there!

Although to solve the online issues, Amex was supposedly thinking about having a card with a little mini screen on it where the security code changes over time.  That was kind of novel, and would solve the online fraud problem.  I sure wouldn't want it in my wallet, since I grab my CC #'s out of a convenient text file when doing online shopping, but it's cool all the same.

The best security features are the ones that don't get in the way of your customers.