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Why is a FR so bad?

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Anonymous
Not applicable

Re: Why is a FR so bad?


@bs6054 wrote:

And just as a reminder to those who seem to think Amex can do no wrong:

 

American Express will reimburse $85 million to about 250,000 customers to resolve accusations that the company violated federal law in its marketing, billing and debt collection practices, the company and the government said Monday.

 

The multiagency investigation of American Express included the Consumer Financial Protection Bureau, the Federal Reserve, the Office of the Comptroller of the Currency and the Utah Department of Financial Institutions. They discovered violations of consumer protection laws between 2003 and this year that started “from the moment a consumer shopped for a card to the moment the consumer got a phone call about long overdue debt,” Richard Cordray, the director of the consumer protection bureau, said in a statement.

To win customers for its Blue Sky travel reward credit card program, the lender sometimes offered customers a misleading promotion. Some customers thought they would receive a $300 reward, but that never materialized, the regulators said.

In doling out credit, they said, American Express also discriminated against applicants based on their age. The company also duped consumers into paying off stale credit card debt with the promise of improving their credit score, the investigators said; in fact, regulators found, American Express was not reporting the payments to the credit bureaus at all.

 

American Express customers should expect refunds by March 2013, regulators said. The company also agreed to pay $27.5 million in fines to the regulators.

 

 


Not exactly totally above board!


 

 

Brilliant, my friend, brilliant!

 

Let's not forget the all-too-real experience of Mr. Kevin J (can I write his last name on the forum?) who was CLD'd by AmEx and in their written ECOA notice stated it was because he swiped his card at a store (an inner-city Wal-Mart, if not mistaken) where people with higher than average default rates also shop.

 

 

Message 91 of 140
jake619
Frequent Contributor

Re: Why is a FR so bad?


@bs6054 wrote:

@jake619 wrote:

@Anonymous wrote:

A FR may be voluntary, but failure to comply gets your account closed.


do you know this to be true?


Well, are you suggesting something else happens?   Your accounts are frozen immediately and you are given a short time to provide the information.  Are you suggesting that if you don't, Amex will say "OK, here's your account unfrozen"?

 

There are tons of accounts posted every few weeks on this and other forums.


maybe. I asked if he knew for a fact what he wrote to be true, nothing more.  there's a lot of stuff put in this thread for consumption so I think it warrants clarification.  

 

to your redirection question, I think it's completely plausible the reason an FR initiates determines the direction a cardholders account can go.  one way I've not yet seen posted on is for a CLI that triggers the review.  Is it reasonable to believe non-compliance mandates account termination?  I do not.  it's been discussed here the agreement to review is voluntary.  if one declined the review on a CLI request i would think the CLI request would be null and the account would remain as-is.

Message 92 of 140
Anonymous
Not applicable

Re: Why is a FR so bad?


@jake619 wrote:

@bs6054 wrote:

@jake619 wrote:

@Anonymous wrote:

A FR may be voluntary, but failure to comply gets your account closed.


do you know this to be true?


Well, are you suggesting something else happens?   Your accounts are frozen immediately and you are given a short time to provide the information.  Are you suggesting that if you don't, Amex will say "OK, here's your account unfrozen"?

 

There are tons of accounts posted every few weeks on this and other forums.


maybe. I asked if he knew for a fact what he wrote to be true, nothing more.  there's a lot of stuff put in this thread for consumption so I think it warrants clarification.  

 

to your redirection question, I think it's completely plausible the reason an FR initiates determines the direction a cardholders account can go.  one way I've not yet seen posted on is for a CLI that triggers the review.  Is it reasonable to believe non-compliance mandates account termination?  I do not.  it's been discussed here the agreement to review is voluntary.  if one declined the review on a CLI request i would think the CLI request would be null and the account would remain as-is.


I haven't seen a thread where someone states they were given a voluntary FR.  Do you have a link to one, please?

Message 93 of 140
jake619
Frequent Contributor

Re: Why is a FR so bad?

I think you misread my wording. it was directed to bs6054 and referred to your previous statement that agreeing to the review was voluntary. it's here on page 8.  I did not intend to convey one could, should or would volunteer to be reviewed.  that made me laugh.

Message 94 of 140
Anonymous
Not applicable

Re: Why is a FR so bad?

I think it's my fault because I didn't make myself clear.  By voluntary I meant that they cannot force you to provide IRS transcripts against your will.  You can either volunteer to comply or else refuse when they inform you that you are under FR.

 

My understanding is that when they tell you that you are under FR you can refuse to comply and they close your account or else you can give them what you ask for.  I'd be interested to hear if anybody had an experience where they were FR'd, refused to sign a 4506 T and AmEx let them keep their account.   

Message 95 of 140
jake619
Frequent Contributor

Re: Why is a FR so bad?

got it.  and therein lies my curiosity.  if the FR is because I behave jackassy then the FR could be to look for any excuse to make me wander.  but if it's because I ask for a questionable CLI amount, questionable based on my stated income at app time, then I think the FR might be less intrusive, thus declining the FR in that situation wouldn't necessarily warrant shutting me down.  make sense?

Message 96 of 140
bradpitt
Valued Member

Re: Why is a FR so bad?

I think your fooling yourself Jake.  Once the FR starts it doesn't matter the reason for the FR you just have to prove to them that your eligible.
 
Amex is the only membership that I know of that will demand proof of membership many years after you join.
Everyone else will ask for proof of eligibility at the time of joining.
And Amex doesn't ask for proof that you were eligible at time you joined but at the time they FR you.
 
I know a lot of you love NFCU.  If they asked for proof of membership after 5 years would you be a little upset after the person that got you in doesn't live with you anymore and you have no relatives in the armed forces?  Bye bye sweet accounts! 
 
Also its mentioned a few times in this thread that Amex is loaning you huge sums and they compare it to a mortgage.  The average mortgage is around $250,000.  I bet the average account at Amex is below $10,000.   I really don't think 4% is a huge amount in my opinion.  But maybe someone's home is $30,000 and they have a $20,000 Amex? 
Message 97 of 140
bs6054
Valued Contributor

Re: Why is a FR so bad?


@jake619 wrote:

got it.  and therein lies my curiosity.  if the FR is because I behave jackassy then the FR could be to look for any excuse to make me wander.  but if it's because I ask for a questionable CLI amount, questionable based on my stated income at app time, then I think the FR might be less intrusive, thus declining the FR in that situation wouldn't necessarily warrant shutting me down.  make sense?


 

I don't know if terms are getting confused.  I posted earlier about my experience with CLI.     My CL was at $25K, I asked for an increase.  As I later learned is standard in this type of case, Amex indicated that to approve they would require more information, and that is when I got the request to send in my 4506T.   This is indeed voluntary, if they didn't hear from me within 30 days, they would assume the CLI was no longer requested.

 

However, this is not why I meant be a FR, but I can understand that you might.  For me, an FR is something initiated by Amex, without notice, immediately impacting my account.  So then the question is almost a tautology!

Message 98 of 140
Anonymous
Not applicable

Re: Why is a FR so bad?


@bs6054 wrote:

@jake619 wrote:

got it.  and therein lies my curiosity.  if the FR is because I behave jackassy then the FR could be to look for any excuse to make me wander.  but if it's because I ask for a questionable CLI amount, questionable based on my stated income at app time, then I think the FR might be less intrusive, thus declining the FR in that situation wouldn't necessarily warrant shutting me down.  make sense?


 

I don't know if terms are getting confused.  I posted earlier about my experience with CLI.     My CL was at $25K, I asked for an increase.  As I later learned is standard in this type of case, Amex indicated that to approve they would require more information, and that is when I got the request to send in my 4506T.   This is indeed voluntary, if they didn't hear from me within 30 days, they would assume the CLI was no longer requested.

 

However, this is not why I meant be a FR, but I can understand that you might.  For me, an FR is something initiated by Amex, without notice, immediately impacting my account.  So then the question is almost a tautology!


I should have paid better attention because I missed that post.

 

Good to know that in that regard AmEx functions a lot like other issuers and not providing documentation only impacts your CLI request.  Let me ask you a hypothetical question: If your limit were $20k and you requested 26 they would have asked for a 4506 T.  Assuming you declined, next time if you request to go from 20 to 24 do you think they would automatically ask for the 4506 T you previously decided not to give them?

 

 

 

Message 99 of 140
bs6054
Valued Contributor

Re: Why is a FR so bad?


McArthur wrote

I should have paid better attention because I missed that post.

 

Good to know that in that regard AmEx functions a lot like other issuers and not providing documentation only impacts your CLI request.  Let me ask you a hypothetical question: If your limit were $20k and you requested 26 they would have asked for a 4506 T.  Assuming you declined, next time if you request to go from 20 to 24 do you think they would automatically ask for the 4506 T you previously decided not to give them?

 

 

 


There's been some discussion on this.  One person mentioned that they did get a CLI increase that went from under 25 to over 25 without any request for 4506T.  Not sure if this was initiated by the customer or was an auto one, but a possible example where tax info wasn't needed.

 

As for the scenario you give, of course we don't know for sure.  I weigh the two possible answers about equally...  a) No, they wouldn't ask because you are not going above the magic threshold of $25K.  The fact you didn't send the form last time doesn't count against you, as there is no suspicion of problem, just you didn't want to bother.  And b) Of course we ask.  You clearly have something to hide by not giving us the form last time.

 

Now thinking about it, leaning more towards b)!

 

Edit: And, because I hadn't thought enough, in my case I did comply with the initial request, so no data there.

Message 100 of 140
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