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Will the citi double cash last?

Valued Contributor

Re: Will the citi double cash last?

This card may eventually be discontinued, but I don't see it being nerfed for existing cardholders. After all,  Citi grandfathered its Forward cardholders.

Better Balance Rewards - $1000 || Discover It - $2000 || Better Balance Rewards #2 - $2100 || Wells Fargo Platinum - $2900 || Barclays Commence MC - $3700 || Better Balance Rewards #3 - $4000 || Amex SPG - $4000 || IHG Rewards WM - $5000 || Merrill+ VS - $5000 || Vantage West Connect Rewards VS - $5000 || Wells Fargo Propel Amex - $5100 || Chase Freedom VS - $7000 || AARP VS - $7000 || Wyndham Rewards Visa - $7000 || US Bank Cash+ VS # - $7500 || Double Cash WEMC - $7600 || Sam's Club MC - $8000 || Marriott Rewards VS - $9000 || Quicksilver WMC - $10500 || US Bank Cash+ VS - $11500 || Amex Everyday - $12000 || Quicksilver VS - $23500 || Amex PRG || Total Credit: $150,400
Message 11 of 50
Super Contributor

Re: Will the citi double cash last?


jaylau17 wrote:

This card may eventually be discontinued, but I don't see it being nerfed for existing cardholders. After all,  Citi grandfathered its Forward cardholders.


I don't see it. They've made too big of a deal about it to nerf it any time soon.

EX FICO  16 INQ  791
EQ FICO  10 INQ  786
TU FICO  12 INQ  790
Total CL$477,00038 TL
Message 12 of 50
Valued Contributor

Re: Will the citi double cash last?


Nixon wrote:

jaylau17 wrote:

This card may eventually be discontinued, but I don't see it being nerfed for existing cardholders. After all,  Citi grandfathered its Forward cardholders.


I don't see it. They've made too big of a deal about it to nerf it any time soon.


Exactly my point. I see commercials for the Double Cash card almost every day.

Better Balance Rewards - $1000 || Discover It - $2000 || Better Balance Rewards #2 - $2100 || Wells Fargo Platinum - $2900 || Barclays Commence MC - $3700 || Better Balance Rewards #3 - $4000 || Amex SPG - $4000 || IHG Rewards WM - $5000 || Merrill+ VS - $5000 || Vantage West Connect Rewards VS - $5000 || Wells Fargo Propel Amex - $5100 || Chase Freedom VS - $7000 || AARP VS - $7000 || Wyndham Rewards Visa - $7000 || US Bank Cash+ VS # - $7500 || Double Cash WEMC - $7600 || Sam's Club MC - $8000 || Marriott Rewards VS - $9000 || Quicksilver WMC - $10500 || US Bank Cash+ VS - $11500 || Amex Everyday - $12000 || Quicksilver VS - $23500 || Amex PRG || Total Credit: $150,400
Message 13 of 50
Super Contributor

Re: Will the citi double cash last?

There are other 2%+ cards with a few caveats:  NASA, which reaches 2% after $2K a year (which is a pretty small barrier).   However, they pay out only once a year.

Then the JBC, 2% after $1000, 3% after $3K (which is even better)

 

Also, not all DC are WMC, mine is a plain MC, and I think even some of those branded as world might actually swipe as normal as well.

 

So I don't think the card is in imminent danger of nerfing, but you never can tell.  Some months ago the Fidelity card was said to stay at 2% for at least 18 months, which certainly means it could also be cut at some point.

 

Re the name meaning it can't easily be nerfed.  Of course it can: if they give 0.5% on purchase and 0.5% on payment, it would still be "the card that pays you twice" and could be called double cash.   The "natural" meaning of double cash would be a card that gave you 200%.   I would take one of those, even if it had a $10 AF!

Message 14 of 50
Established Contributor

Re: Will the citi double cash last?


LearningFast14 wrote:

I see that people here (and elsewhere) are very excited about the citi double cash. This got me wondered whether I should get on this. However, for the reasons below, I decided to not go this route. I write this in case some people might find it useful. 

 

How can a bank possibly make a profit out of a flat 2% cashback? 

 

Some people have gotten the double cash as a Visa by doing product changes, but generally speaking it is a Mastercard. So how much does your bank make when you ...

 

My conclusion

There have been multiple 2% cards throughout the years. The Schwab card and the Priceline card are proof that 2% flat is not always sustainable. Those cards however had APR comparable to the Fidelity Amex. It seems that here citi is betting that the higher APR will be able to make up for the lower swipe fees of the Mastercard as opposed to Amex network. Since it is looking like we are going to be in a very low interest rate environment for many years to come, I have doubts that the doublecash will be sufficiently profitable to remain around for many years. So, at least for me, the answer is clear: stick with the Fidelity Amex. 


 

I don't understand why people make good arguments, grant you, about the viability of this particular card, while nobody does the same for Sallie Mae, for example.  Sure, they are capped, but for that cap, they must be getting creamed.  And, I assume that beyond that cap and for other non 5% rewards purchases, people use other cards.  So, how is that card viable?  I see DC more solid than Sallie, which, granted, ain't saying much, but still.

 

 

Message 15 of 50
Super Contributor

Re: Will the citi double cash last?

I don't see double cash lasting too long. Citi often nerfs cards anyway.

I'm surprised Sallie hasn't been needed yet but I guess the caps help. Plus honestly its not exactly a mainstream card. Few people outside of these forums have it.
Message 16 of 50
Super Contributor

Re: Will the citi double cash last?


elPatitoFeo wrote:

LearningFast14 wrote:

I see that people here (and elsewhere) are very excited about the citi double cash. This got me wondered whether I should get on this. However, for the reasons below, I decided to not go this route. I write this in case some people might find it useful. 

 

How can a bank possibly make a profit out of a flat 2% cashback? 

 

Some people have gotten the double cash as a Visa by doing product changes, but generally speaking it is a Mastercard. So how much does your bank make when you ...

 

My conclusion

There have been multiple 2% cards throughout the years. The Schwab card and the Priceline card are proof that 2% flat is not always sustainable. Those cards however had APR comparable to the Fidelity Amex. It seems that here citi is betting that the higher APR will be able to make up for the lower swipe fees of the Mastercard as opposed to Amex network. Since it is looking like we are going to be in a very low interest rate environment for many years to come, I have doubts that the doublecash will be sufficiently profitable to remain around for many years. So, at least for me, the answer is clear: stick with the Fidelity Amex. 


 

I don't understand why people make good arguments, grant you, about the viability of this particular card, while nobody does the same for Sallie Mae, for example.  Sure, they are capped, but for that cap, they must be getting creamed.  And, I assume that beyond that cap and for other non 5% rewards purchases, people use other cards.  So, how is that card viable?  I see DC more solid than Sallie, which, granted, ain't saying much, but still.

 

 


I think that the assumption is that, odd as it seems, "many" people use high bonus cards for general spending as well (don't know better, only card they have, can't be bothered to scramble for small amounts of rewards etc).  This discussion has been brought up lately with the change in the T&Cs of Chase, is it OK to use Freedom for only 5% categories.

 

What is different about DC and other 2% general cards is that there is no "OK" spending possible  (assuming the assumptions are correct)

Message 17 of 50
Super Contributor

Re: Will the citi double cash last?

I think its the point that its 2% everywhere card, i think thats normally the break point for CCC , maybe if they see that its not profitable as in majority of people are actually Paying on time, it may not be profitable for them, i could see them cutting some of the benefits who knows tho. 



EX Fico 804 11/16/16 Fako 800 Credit.com 11/16/16
EQ SW bank enhanced 11/16/16 839 CK fako 822 11/16/16
TU Fico discover 10/19/16 814 Fako 819 Creditkarma 11/16/16
Message 18 of 50
Established Contributor

Re: Will the citi double cash last?


longtimelurker wrote:

elPatitoFeo wrote:

LearningFast14 wrote:

I see that people here (and elsewhere) are very excited about the citi double cash. This got me wondered whether I should get on this. However, for the reasons below, I decided to not go this route. I write this in case some people might find it useful. 

 

How can a bank possibly make a profit out of a flat 2% cashback? 

 

Some people have gotten the double cash as a Visa by doing product changes, but generally speaking it is a Mastercard. So how much does your bank make when you ...

 

My conclusion

There have been multiple 2% cards throughout the years. The Schwab card and the Priceline card are proof that 2% flat is not always sustainable. Those cards however had APR comparable to the Fidelity Amex. It seems that here citi is betting that the higher APR will be able to make up for the lower swipe fees of the Mastercard as opposed to Amex network. Since it is looking like we are going to be in a very low interest rate environment for many years to come, I have doubts that the doublecash will be sufficiently profitable to remain around for many years. So, at least for me, the answer is clear: stick with the Fidelity Amex. 


 

I don't understand why people make good arguments, grant you, about the viability of this particular card, while nobody does the same for Sallie Mae, for example.  Sure, they are capped, but for that cap, they must be getting creamed.  And, I assume that beyond that cap and for other non 5% rewards purchases, people use other cards.  So, how is that card viable?  I see DC more solid than Sallie, which, granted, ain't saying much, but still.

 

 


I think that the assumption is that, odd as it seems, "many" people use high bonus cards for general spending as well (don't know better, only card they have, can't be bothered to scramble for small amounts of rewards etc).  This discussion has been brought up lately with the change in the T&Cs of Chase, is it OK to use Freedom for only 5% categories.

 

What is different about DC and other 2% general cards is that there is no "OK" spending possible  (assuming the assumptions are correct)


 

Yeah, unfortunately we don't have the juicy numbers, dammit!  It would be very interesting to know how many people do general spending with Sallie, or how many people don't PIF with DC.   It we knew those things, the answer would be obvious.

 

Lets not forget that we, in this forum, have more knowledge about these matters than more than 99% of the population, so the bankers expectation of non-optimal customer behavior is probably right... which means these cards will continue to be very profitable for people on places like this.  Let's enjoy, be merry and eat some bloody piece of broccoli!Smiley Surprised   See?  That just doesn't sound right....Smiley Embarassed

 

 

Message 19 of 50
Super Contributor

Re: Will the citi double cash last?


elPatitoFeo wrote:

longtimelurker wrote:

elPatitoFeo wrote:

LearningFast14 wrote:

I see that people here (and elsewhere) are very excited about the citi double cash. This got me wondered whether I should get on this. However, for the reasons below, I decided to not go this route. I write this in case some people might find it useful. 

 

How can a bank possibly make a profit out of a flat 2% cashback? 

 

Some people have gotten the double cash as a Visa by doing product changes, but generally speaking it is a Mastercard. So how much does your bank make when you ...

 

My conclusion

There have been multiple 2% cards throughout the years. The Schwab card and the Priceline card are proof that 2% flat is not always sustainable. Those cards however had APR comparable to the Fidelity Amex. It seems that here citi is betting that the higher APR will be able to make up for the lower swipe fees of the Mastercard as opposed to Amex network. Since it is looking like we are going to be in a very low interest rate environment for many years to come, I have doubts that the doublecash will be sufficiently profitable to remain around for many years. So, at least for me, the answer is clear: stick with the Fidelity Amex. 


 

I don't understand why people make good arguments, grant you, about the viability of this particular card, while nobody does the same for Sallie Mae, for example.  Sure, they are capped, but for that cap, they must be getting creamed.  And, I assume that beyond that cap and for other non 5% rewards purchases, people use other cards.  So, how is that card viable?  I see DC more solid than Sallie, which, granted, ain't saying much, but still.

 

 


I think that the assumption is that, odd as it seems, "many" people use high bonus cards for general spending as well (don't know better, only card they have, can't be bothered to scramble for small amounts of rewards etc).  This discussion has been brought up lately with the change in the T&Cs of Chase, is it OK to use Freedom for only 5% categories.

 

What is different about DC and other 2% general cards is that there is no "OK" spending possible  (assuming the assumptions are correct)


 

Yeah, unfortunately we don't have the juicy numbers, dammit!  It would be very interesting to know how many people do general spending with Sallie, or how many people don't PIF with DC.   It we knew those things, the answer would be obvious.

 

Lets not forget that we, in this forum, have more knowledge about these matters than more than 99% of the population, so the bankers expectation of non-optimal customer behavior is probably right... which means these cards will continue to be very profitable for people on places like this.  Let's enjoy, be merry and eat some bloody piece of broccoli!Smiley Surprised   See?  That just doesn't sound right....Smiley Embarassed

 

 


9/10 of my purchases on SM are 5% purchases.

EX FICO  16 INQ  791
EQ FICO  10 INQ  786
TU FICO  12 INQ  790
Total CL$477,00038 TL
Message 20 of 50