ZYNC Gone???

[alboto]

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@CreditScholar wrote:

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@collinsridge wrote:

Sooooooooooo people with the 200/500 (Myself) aren't in with AMEX, and the 200/500 is Worthless? Lol. Just sayin'....................

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As it stands currently, yes I don't think you're worth Amex's time. This isn't personal, but given how much people with a hard limit are spending compared to their traditional clientele it's not even close. That doesn't mean that you can't become a better customer for Amex in the future, but in your current state they'd be better off leaving you to grow your profile on someone else's time. Then you can come back when you're more established.

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Hard to admit, but I completely agree with this.

[Revelate]

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@CreditScholar wrote:

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@collinsridge wrote:

Sooooooooooo people with the 200/500 (Myself) aren't in with AMEX, and the 200/500 is Worthless? Lol. Just sayin'....................

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As it stands currently, yes I don't think you're worth Amex's time. This isn't personal, but given how much people with a hard limit are spending compared to their traditional clientele it's not even close. That doesn't mean that you can't become a better customer for Amex in the future, but in your current state they'd be better off leaving you to grow your profile on someone else's time. Then you can come back when you're more established.

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Given that Amex is profitable on individual transactions, I'm not certain I see this.  Their CS was completely seperate to reference one of our prior discussions, and they could've scaled that in any form or fashion they wished.

I suspect if anything they may be concerned about the brand, I think if they kill the prepaid cards as well this would absolutely be the case, but I think the Zync was for more folks than just "limited spenders" and really was the best card for me from a rewards perspective compared to literally any other card right now including any of their revolvers.  They have nothing to my knowledge which line up in the restaurant categories that are so popular with Chase, which really seems like a deficient oversight in my book from Amex's perspective.  Even some of the comparitive economic elite on this forum (Open123) have long pontificated it's advantages as a rewards accelerator for the higher tier charge cards.

I think someone prior in the thread suggested this, but there's no real reason for me to upgrade to a higher AF card, and I'd be a more profitable customer to them if I were.  Right now my AF is lower than a Green, and my rewards earning is way beyond that of a green for me (MRE = MR for restaurant gift certificates and the Green has no rewards multipliers), and if the Zync is meant to be a gateway card to higher products, it's failing miserably as simply being too good of a card compared to the higher tier products.

My theories anyway.

[jamesdwi]

I don't think they are concerned that Zync holders spend less, I'm sure a lot of Green and Gold card holders dont use there  once a month. They got them for prestige of having the card, they pull it out when they want to impress people. Some people just keep paying the AF and use the card infrequently they like being a member and the perks when they travel once every 3 or 4 years.

Not all of there card holders are balers that drop $15000 on a weekend  at martha's vineyard. I would think a large percentage of there clients pay cash for everyday purchases and have an 800+ score by just barely using the credit they have, just enough usage to keep the cards open. 

I think some of there accountants were hoping that they could cash in on fee's by catering to some of the boaderline credit profiles. A $35 dollar late fee is more than most people pay  for the AF  and they have basically doubled there profit for the year. Very limited exposure if they screw up twice they are booted, They see first preemie and capone rake in money on fees they wanted to cash in. 

If AMEX was hoping to get people into better cards, I don't see why they refuse to PC the Zync to other cards. With the new credit card act they could of easily put a limit of no PC's for the first year, and then clamp it down even further, they could deny based on internal score, and income, for higher profit they could even make all PC's from Zync pay full AF on all PC. Instead of waiving it like they do on some cards. 

The whole hard limit thing seemed like different divisions inside AMEX were fighting, Marketing wanted more card holders, but Underwriters wanted to cover there butts when people started getting the card with really borderline scores. The CSR's mostly didn't have a clue about the hardlimits so it wasn't covered in there training materials and scripts that were probably developed before the hardlimit ideas were introduced.  

[CreditScholar]

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@Revelate wrote:

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@CreditScholar wrote:

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@collinsridge wrote:

Sooooooooooo people with the 200/500 (Myself) aren't in with AMEX, and the 200/500 is Worthless? Lol. Just sayin'....................

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As it stands currently, yes I don't think you're worth Amex's time. This isn't personal, but given how much people with a hard limit are spending compared to their traditional clientele it's not even close. That doesn't mean that you can't become a better customer for Amex in the future, but in your current state they'd be better off leaving you to grow your profile on someone else's time. Then you can come back when you're more established.

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Given that Amex is profitable on individual transactions, I'm not certain I see this.  Their CS was completely seperate to reference one of our prior discussions, and they could've scaled that in any form or fashion they wished.

I suspect if anything they may be concerned about the brand, I think if they kill the prepaid cards as well this would absolutely be the case, but I think the Zync was for more folks than just "limited spenders" and really was the best card for me from a rewards perspective compared to literally any other card right now including any of their revolvers.  They have nothing to my knowledge which line up in the restaurant categories that are so popular with Chase, which really seems like a deficient oversight in my book from Amex's perspective.  Even some of the comparitive economic elite on this forum (Open123) have long pontificated it's advantages as a rewards accelerator for the higher tier charge cards.

I think someone prior in the thread suggested this, but there's no real reason for me to upgrade to a higher AF card, and I'd be a more profitable customer to them if I were.  Right now my AF is lower than a Green, and my rewards earning is way beyond that of a green for me (MRE = MR for restaurant gift certificates and the Green has no rewards multipliers), and if the Zync is meant to be a gateway card to higher products, it's failing miserably as simply being too good of a card compared to the higher tier products.

My theories anyway.

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Open123's comments are valid, in particular with regards to many business owners using the blue open for the 30% bonus after 3 years, and then coupling it with a standard MR or MRF card to obtain transferrability. The assumption though is that they have multiple Amex cards already, such as a Zync with the restaurant pack (2x on dining) plus a green, gold, PRG or platinum. In these cases, the transition has been successful. The odds are that someone will have a Zync as their first card, and then obtain (for example) a PRG afterwards. I don't think it's very common to apply for a Zync after one already has another full MR charge-card. The latter occurs but is in the minority of cases.

The other thing to keep in mind is that at this point, they're getting at least 2 (or more) AFs from you for that transferrability. If you're looking at things simply from a MRE prespective, there are far better options out there than the Zync. For example, the Citi Forward offers 5% on dining with no AF.

As to why they don't want people to PC, again they can get another AF from you. This is doubly true if you're a low-spender generating limited revenue through interchange fees, because the extra AF will help offset some of the fixed costs like providing CSRs. It's better for them to just make you apply for another card.

Their assumption would be that if you have a fixed amount of money to push through (limited by your income), you'll spend it on one of their cards or another. In the meantime they win on both fronts. If you're a low spender but obtain another card, they get a 2nd AF from you. If you suddenly become a higher spender due to the transferrability/points accelerator with higher tier cards, then you've become the kind of client that Amex's spend-centric model embraces.

[CreditCrusader]

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@CreditScholar wrote:

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@gettnthere wrote:

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@Drew1980 wrote:

I saw this as well. It hasn't been a huge success... I wouldn't be surprised if they remove it from their lineup altogether in the future.

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I Think that statement is very inaccurate. The Amex Zync has actually been quite successful, there have been hundreds (if not thousands over the last 2 years) of posts of people going after the Zync, with most getting approved or eventually getting approved. Here on Myfico, we are just a small minority, there are millions of other people out there who could have this card, so to say it has been unsuccessful is actually pretty inaccurate.

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Popular doesn't necessarily mean profitable. The Zync was intended to act as a bridge for people to access Amex's other products after proving themselves. The key here would be to look at how many Zync holders actually transitioned successfully into other products, and whether or not that specific cohort of people were profitable after that transition.

If many don't transition from the Zync to something else, it would be seen by many in Amex to have "lost the plot". Zync cardholders that don't transition (especially those with $200-500 hard limits) frankly aren't worth Amex's time. Amex should tell those people to go away and come back when they're better established.

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May seem harsh to some, but I would bet that your sentiments here are 100% accurate.

Note to all (in case you missed the headline): AMEX is a very, very picky lender with very, very high standards for membership.

They are notoriously not BK-friendly regardless of established credit or FICO scores after the BK.

They are similarly-notorious for FR activity AFTER approval.

My 2 cents: AMEX got cold feet issuing charge products to people on the fringe of prime qualification and couldn't justify taking the risk given their analysis of the potential reward for the product. It's nothing personal...just a business decision that almost all companies in the credit game make on a daily basis.

[TheConductor]

Frankly, if the primary concern is brand image and the fringe underwriting cases, they could solve that by keeping the card but doing away with the hard-limit options.

As far as I can see, this card was an experiment on multiple levels:

- in marketing a card via Gen-Y/Millennial methods (concert tie-ins, bloggers, viral/social, etc.)

- in having a Build-Your-Own rewards card

- in rewards partnerships that appeal to a younger demographic (green retailers, Gilt, data/internet providers, etc)

- in edgy-for-Amex underwriting to bring new members into the fold

Even if one or two of these experiments has failed in their eyes, I hope they are smart enough not to throw out the baby with the bathwater.  To me, the great advantage of the card was its customizability and its inclusion of rewards categories that can be tailored to my Whole Foods-is-my-primary-grocery-store, green-shopping-in-general, cable-iPhone-and-iPad-having, shopping-frequently-at-Gilt lifestyle.  I pretty much AM their target market for this thing, and there's no other card on the market that will give me rewards multipliers in the majority of those categories.

My hope is that this whole thing is a temporary revamp, in which they will likely discard some packs that weren't popular, revise some others (e.g. the Vegas pack would have appealed more if it were a Pick-A-Major-Destination pack that you could change your rewards destination once a year between say Vegas/NYC/Prague/London/Paris/Berlin), discard the hard-limit options, and DOUBLE DOWN on the creative marketing approaches.  They only kind of dipped their toe in that pool without ever getting in.  If they really committed to it, e.g. in the way MINI did in their early years, I could see them achieving the same note of youth-savvy luxury that the MINI has. MINI is basically BMW for those who are less pretentious and more style-conscious - the looks matter more than the label.  Zync could be the same for Amex - luxury that is more hip than hidebound.

If they do cancel the card outright, just please don't make me PC.  I like my reward packs, even if I can never change them ever again.  I'll be perfectly happy with my card just as it is, because I already built it the way I want it.

[charyot77]

I feel like the removal of Zync has less to do with subprime people and more to do with the recent settlement.

The Zync was aimed at younger consumers. I'm sure that didn't sit over too well with their lawsuit.

It's been frequently said on this board that the Zync had similar underwriting standards to the other AMEX charge cards.  There were some posters who managed to get in with a hard-limit but for the most part, it's not like AMEX opened the floodgates.  Like others said, if it were a matter of protecting their brand, all American Express had to do was raise their standards.  I'm not even sure most people know that the Zync was sub-prime fringe, anyway.

I was "pre-approved" for one of the "better" charge cards, but I went with the Zync because I live abroad and probably wont be able to use the card much except for travel (I got the travel pack).  If American Express decides to remove the FOREX fee on the Gold Card, then I definitely see myself switching and using it as my main card. Oddly enough I have a platinum American Express card in the country that I live in (the annual fee is about half of the US Version and I can better use the benefits). It's a shame my spending total and PIF habits cant be transferred to my American credit score/AMEX account.

[Repo-ed]

Well, at least I have my zync w/ NPSL. I use it for 100% of my daily expenses and use it to pay my bills, where applicable.

The only place I can not use it at, is Aldi's (grocery store)

[Zanarov]

Well this drug me out of my lurking hole....

Looks like I got really lucky..could'nt sleep on Friday so I applied for the Zync-and was approved. Just in time! And like others said we now hold super sexy exclusive card

Does anyone know what will happen in regards to the long term for those of us who have it?  Will they offer us a PC or will they just keep supporting it.

Specifically what happened after previous product discontinuations?

[CS800]

By invitation only ??

In all seriousness. For AMEX to discontinue a product, they must have been losing money on it. People nowadays most likely go for revolving cards rather than charge. And probaly after a year with the Zync they just app for another AMEX with a revolving CL and drop the Zync.

Most likely the benefits that AMEX thought they would get from the card wasn't there.

The Zync was my first AMEX/card post rebuilding. I used it for 3 months, then got a BCE, Discover, Chase etc. Since then the Zync has not been used (close to 10 months). The reward structure is not great. How many of us on here, got the Zync, used it for 3-5 months the n SD it?

I was even thinking about closing mine after it hits the 1 year mark. Would be interesting to see the official statement from AMEX concerning the Zync.

Question is, what will happen to existinbg card holders? Reninds me of the OPTIMA Platinum fate back in the early 2000's.