@Thomas_Thumb wrote:
@Anonymous wrote:
@Anonymous wrote:Thank you very much for the information. I didn't realize CK didn't factor closed accounts. That might explain why they are always so much lower scorewise than my actual scores.
I guess I'll just let the 2 comenity cards I was going to close sit there. They are PIF so there's no utilization issue.
Credit Karma actually shows a longer AAoA for me than Fico does. CK is 4.8 years, Fico is 4.1 years.
That's not so unusual. If someone has a moderately thin file with a few well aged accounts (like your 36 year old) opens a handful of new accounts and then closes them a few months or even years later - the VS3 AAoAs go back up (no more young ones in the mix) but Fico AAoAs remain affected.
I opened a couple store cards 4 to 7 years back which were closed 3 years ago. Impact of the young age brings down my Fico AAoA.
Average Age Type
Equifax
TransUnion
Experian
CK VS 3.0 (Open only)
18 years 3 months
18 years 3 months
n/a
Fico (open+closed)
16 years 7 months
14 years 11 months
16 years 7 months
Note: EQ and TU Fico AAoAs will drop late this year due to a closed account (27 years age) falling off. The account already fell off TU.
Side note: Opening some new accounts and closing oldest ones would have a devastating impact on CK AAoA since the old boys were put to rest. Fico is more forgiving in that regard.
Oh yeah, good point.
That said, VS 3.0 AAOA != CK AAOOA; that's purely a CK presentation affectation (which admittedly Wallethub does now too) which existed long before CK's switch to VS.
@Thomas_Thumb wrote:
@Revelate wrote:
Oh yeah, good point.
That said, VS 3.0 AAOA != CK AAOOA; that's purely a CK presentation affectation (which admittedly Wallethub does now too) which existed long before CK's switch to VS.
FYI - I believe credit.com and credit Sesame also compute AAoA based on open accounts only. I'm sticking with VS 3.0 based on open accounts only until proven otherwise. I did get a 3B report direct from TU based on VS 3.0. Everything was a perfect match to CK. However, I did not capture a AAoA in what I saved. I also got VS 3.0 scores direct from Experian which matches credit.com. Again, no AAoA computation on that report.
Well you aren't the only one as doctorofcredit seems to think that too; that said, look at the VS FAQ:
http://your.vantagescore.com/resource/46
It suggests that closing an account will be the same impact as closing it under FICO which doesn't sound like it's discounting closed accounts. I'd be very leery of suggesting that it doesn't factor as a result and we know, absolutely know, that CK had this AAOOA calculation before the switch to VS.
VS 3.0 scores will match, but you cannot trust ANY third party calculation / intepretation for AAOA, not even myFICO honestly.
Oh check it out, case in point credit.com actually calculates AAOA "correctly" as it has me at 2 years 10 months which is correct for both open and closed accounts (if I round down, if I just round it I'm at 35 months which I think is what MF calculates now). I'm going to be trying uber hard to catch the AAOA 2->3 year change, I get VS 3.0 updates frequently enough that I might be able to pick that up if I can catch the FICO one, but my VS is much more sensitive to small changes than any of my FICO scores.
Did just check though, my Experian National Equivalency Score after getting my collection deleted, 798 on a 360-840 scale now haha! Too bad that's educational only... VS 3 didn't move as expected. Damn you FICO for not ignoring paid tax liens! 
The problem TT is that changes don't happen in a vacuum; not saying you're necessarily wrong, we just don't have enough data to support either hypothesis one way or the other... I tend to fall on the side of Occam's Razor and that it likely is calculated the same way for all the same reasons, but I could admittedly be wrong in that assumption.
I mentioned my VS is way more sensitive to small changes, so it's difficult for me to accurately test in comparison to my FICO scores which are horrendously fixed by my tax lien dominating my credit profile especially as we have far more detailed information on the FICO algorithms. For example what if VS is calculating payment history on the number of pretty OK's rather than FICO's apparent everything's OK unless there's a deliquency or worse? That would correspond to what you were suggesting, and I believe you've theorized that VS likes thicker files which might be entirely possible given my lofty scores there compared to my FICO 8's as tradelines aren't something I'm in short supply of, and losing closed tradelines might be a small penalty in that case too.
There's also a reasonable chance that VS's might be far more forgiving when it comes to average age of accounts (open or closed), I've scored awfully well on VS 3.0 for a while and my history is unquestionably short, certainly I would suggest it trends more like FICO 8 than FICO 04 in that regard.
Anyway I'm all for getting more data, I'm just of the opinion we shouldn't be jumping to conclusions which aren't well supported until we get more data as we haven't been able to even scratch the surface of VS beyond the fairly obvious details like paid collections and maybe paid tax liens. compared to FICO 8.
I would like to add my own queston regarding closed accounts and AAOA. In fact, how excactly does the closed account factor? say I opened a CC and then 5 months into it i decide to closed it. Now 5 months down the road after I close it, does FICO then count that account as 5 months old (since i closed it after 5 months) or 10 months old when factoring AAOA?? Thats a big difference say 5 years down the road. I would rather that account count as 5 years old than 5 months old. So while the closed accounts are on one's report for 10 years, do they really age? I am guessing they dont age. Someone please correct me if i am wrong.
@jawbrkr wrote:I would like to add my own queston regarding closed accounts and AAOA. In fact, how excactly does the closed account factor? say I opened a CC and then 5 months into it i decide to closed it. Now 5 months down the road after I close it, does FICO then count that account as 5 months old (since i closed it after 5 months) or 10 months old when factoring AAOA?? Thats a big difference say 5 years down the road. I would rather that account count as 5 years old than 5 months old. So while the closed accounts are on one's report for 10 years, do they really age? I am guessing they dont age. Someone please correct me if i am wrong.
AAOA is scored off the open date on the tradeline (which is why Amex backdating was so huge back when that was available) so in this case it would be 10 months and they do absolutely age.
Only difference between open and closed accounts (other than continuing to tack on pretty OK's which isn't a big deal after you have a bunch anyway seemingly) is the closed account will be gone in 10 years give or take and that can be a little problematic if your file isn't thick with other aged tradelines. For example my oldest account (closed) is a full 40 months older than the next most aged tradeline... when that falls off I'm going to take at least a minor hit both on AAOA but definitely on oldest account.
I'm just hoping with 22 other tradelines it'll be buffered enough to be irrelevant at that point, should absolutely be on FICO 8 at least.
Awesome. Thank your for the response. Whether a closed account continued to age was the part i never seemed to have a clear answer on.