CK relation to real scores

[roadrage41]

I've never paid for myfico scores, because I knew when i started they were trash, ck tells me who i owe money to. and I dont pay attention to their scoring much, but now I find myself wondering.

Doesn't it usually trend down?

I've got it to where I'm current on everything, I have a ton of medical collections, but I basically pay those, dispute them, and they come off. The CA told me they wouldn't fight (they know how the "process" works, and dont want to deal with it, and for the first 6 or so they've not lied.) in lieu of a PFD agreement, because I'm never home to do all of the fancy letters.

anyway CK shows me at like 628 TU, 598 for EQ, dont know what my score is for EX, but my EX report is clean as a whistle since noone really uses them.

The end game is a mortgage approval, So I've just been biding time, building credit lines, paying off baddies, and getting my payment history in order.

The reason I'm curious - I ran through Monday and did the gamut of "lets see who wont prequalify me for a card this month" run.

Chase gave me a Sapphire. Still no nothing from discover (whose site seems to have changed?) But a freaking Sapphire?  ($5k to boot)

I thought those were reserved for the upper echelon of credit seekers? I think something puked in their system or...

Im still deciding if I want to just keep doing what I'm doing, or let the curiosity take hold. I don't have a down payment anyway.

Could I be over the 628 that CK shows?

[Anonymous]

Very possible. My CK TU says my score is about 100 points lower than my Fico score

[Anonymous]

I have seen this go both ways. When I started building credit. Ck showed 590,606 when I got my car loan my bank got 540 and 568. Few months later ck shows 668,656 but my fico is 706,610 . The bank told me ck was 20 points lower but from experience it can be lower or higher.

[CreditMagic7]

I hate to keep beating a dead horse all the time with CK but they continue to degrade to worse lows all the time IMHO.

Before the last major overhaul upgrade of the site when they still only used TU, they used to have a fantastic calendar that helped members pinpoint the expected reporting dates of all your current credit cards. They killed that useful feature off. I hit them up on FB to no avail on that.

Also they used to utilize a nicely aligned drop down menu that cascaded all your current balances in one fell swoop in order of your highest balance first.

Also they used to have a fantastic hover over Pie Chart showing each card's percentages to limits. They destroyed that one too.

Then at least on the upgraded site they added Equifax Credit Report along with TransUnion and used a FAKO formula that actually was really fairly close to my genuine trademarked FICO scores which was a bit of a surprise but relevant enough to consider it to a point.

And last but not least to fully crash what they were pretty good at before, along comes this off-the-wall Vantage Score and with that new formula completely deviated way far away from an actual score that for me it became an authentic-not-even-close FAKO score to be totally ignored.

I know it costs them something to buy BOTH of those reports to offer each member for free but even those are woefully not up-to-date many times for me that i noticed.

Bottom line and to reply directly with my own answer to this topic question is IGNORE THE SCORE.

IT'S 100% FAKE=PHONY=FUN TO LOOK AT OR NOT.

[takeshi74]

This is an extremely common topic. Don't overlook the many existing discussions on scores.

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@roadrage41 wrote:

CK relation to real scores

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There's no relation and VantageScore 3.0 is a real score.  Do not rely on oversimplified generalizations such as real, reliable, accurate, etc.  There are many scoring models used by creditors in decisions.  While most use a FICO model, FICO doesn't have just one model (see the Understanding FICO Scoring subforum and its stickies) and there are creditors that use VantageScore.  Instead, consider the relevance of a given scoring model to a given creditor and product.  If, for example, a creditor/product uses an EQ FICO 8 Bankcard then it doesn't matter what your "real" EQ FICO 8 is since your EQ FICO 8 isn't being considered in that situation.  If you have a creditor that does use a VantageScore then your "real" FICO's don't matter since they're not used in the decision.  FICO 8 is the most commonly used scoring model but it is not used for all creditors/products.  Be aware of which models your creditors use and which models the creditors you intend to apply with use.

Do not assume that you can use a score generated by one model to determine a score generated by another model.  Different models evaluate report data differently and can have different scoring ranges.  If you want to know your TU FICO 8 then pull your TU FICO 8.  Don't attempt to use your TU VantageScore 3.0 or any other score other than a TU FICO 8 to determine what it is.  Even the FICO models will vary in the numbers generated for a given report so don't use one FICO model to determine the score generated by another FICO model either.

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@roadrage41 wrote:

Doesn't it usually trend down? 

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You can't assume such things.  Variance and trending can differ between two models.  There may be a large variance in one instance and a small variance in another.  They may trend the same way over a given data set and they may not trend the same way over a given data set.  There's no relationship between two models because they're not created based off each other.  You can't assume static and causal relationships.  Your TU VantageScore may dfiffer from your TU FICO 8 by X one time and Y the next and Z the next.  One may be higher than the other one time and lower than the other the next.  Two models can produce similar or even the same score in some situations but that's just coincidence.  Remember that coincidence and causality are not the same thing.  Don't assume causality based on coincidence.

If pricing is a concern for you, myFICO isn't the only source for FICO's.  CCT is a popular option because of its trial and because people have been able to get a discount on the ongoing rate by cancelling during the trial.  CCT only provides FICO 8's whereas myFICO does provide additional FICO models so be aware of what you're specifically purchasing.  myFICO is also trigger based whereas CCT is not.  Experian and Equifax also have products that offer FICO's.  Experian provides FICO 8's and I don't recall which model Equifx provides but it's not FICO 8, IIRC.

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@roadrage41 wrote:

The reason I'm curious - I ran through Monday and did the gamut of "lets see who wont prequalify me for a card this month" run.

Chase gave me a Sapphire. Still no nothing from discover (whose site seems to have changed?) But a freaking Sapphire?  ($5k to boot)

I thought those were reserved for the upper echelon of credit seekers? I think something puked in their system or...

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Gave you or preapproved?  Don't confalte the two.  You don't have anything until you're actually approved.

A CSP isn't that difficult to qualify for.  It may seem that way to one who doesn't have a credit profile that qualifies for one but one does not need to be in the "upper echelon".  You also cannot assume that getting something from one creditor means that you should from the next.  IIRC Chase doesn't tend to use the same CRA as Discover.  You might want to look into which CRA a creditor tends to use for your area.  You can look at existing discussions as a resource as well as the Credit Pulls Database which can be found via Google.

Don't rely on prequals.  Apply for products that suit you when your reports are clean.  It's never just about score but when they are clean, refer to the Credit Pulls Database and pull the specific scoring model & CRA used by the creditor you're thinking of applying to.

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@roadrage41 wrote:

Im still deciding if I want to just keep doing what I'm doing, or let the curiosity take hold. I don't have a down payment anyway. 

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A down payment for what?  If you have derogs like collections then ideally you want to wait until they're gone.  It's not just a matter of getting approved so don't think of it that way.  Approval is really a low bar.  Your credit profile will also play a major role in determining the limits, APR's, bonus offers, etc that you qualify for.  Many find it difficult to get a CLI or APR reduction with Chase so I would recommend applying for Chase when your reports are clean.  I'd advise doing so with any creditor as they all base their decisions on credit profile and income.

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@roadrage41 wrote:

Could I be over the 628 that CK shows?

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It's possible.  We have no idea.  Again, if you want to know your TU or EQ FICO 8 then pull it.

This is only anecdotal but currently my TU VantageScore 3.0 and my TU FICO 8 happen to be 1 point off.  However, they've varied much more in the past.  Some have seen nearly a 100 point variance.  Pull the score you want to see.  Don't rely on using any scoring model other than the one you're curious about to find out what that score is.

[Revelate]

CK is still the best free report access option on the market.

And to be utterly fair, at least Vantage isn't an educational score; I had my Chase Freedom underwritten with it.   FWIW Vantage 3 and FICO 9 are likely going to be a lot closer than FICO 8... and that's all because FICO used some of the developments in VS in their own algorithm release apparently.

I don't understand the hate, nothing is ever perfect, and CK is good at a whole lot of things.

[settleordelete]

I can tell you that this site (myFICO) is dead on when it comes to my scores. CK on the other hand is not even close to the real thing. Just pull these FICOs and see for yourself.

[Revelate]

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@CreditMagic7 wrote:

I hate to keep beating a dead horse all the time with CK but they continue to degrade to worse lows all the time IMHO.

Before the last major overhaul upgrade of the site when they still only used TU, they used to have a fantastic calendar that helped members pinpoint the expected reporting dates of all your current credit cards. They killed that useful feature off. I hit them up on FB to no avail on that.

Also they used to utilize a nicely aligned drop down menu that cascaded all your current balances in one fell swoop in order of your highest balance first.

Also they used to have a fantastic hover over Pie Chart showing each card's percentages to limits. They destroyed that one too.

Then at least on the upgraded site they added Equifax Credit Report along with TransUnion and used a FAKO formula that actually was really fairly close to my genuine trademarked FICO scores which was a bit of a surprise but relevant enough to consider it to a point.

And last but not least to fully crash what they were pretty good at before, along comes this off-the-wall Vantage Score and with that new formula completely deviated way far away from an actual score that for me it became an authentic-not-even-close FAKO score to be totally ignored.

I know it costs them something to buy BOTH of those reports to offer each member for free but even those are woefully not up-to-date many times for me that i noticed.

Bottom line and to reply directly with my own answer to this topic question is IGNORE THE SCORE.

IT'S 100% FAKE=PHONY=FUN TO LOOK AT OR NOT.

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Wanted to also point out, can still easily get that: accounts / creditcards + open, and then sort by balance.

Not sure on some of your other bits, % of credit limit used is in the same interface.

[Thomas_Thumb]

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@settleordelete wrote:
I can tell you that this site (myFICO) is dead on when it comes to my scores. CK on the other hand is not even close to the real thing. Just pull these FICOs and see for yourself.

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There is no such thing as the "real deal". All we have here are a bunch of models tailored toward creditors to help the creditors determine your creditworthiness. It would be shocking if myFICO - which reports Fico scores didnot agree with Fico scores reported through other sources. CK doesnot report Fico scores. It reports VantageScore 3.0 There really is no point in VantageScore trying to mimic Fico. VS markets their product as a Fico alternative with advantages.

The various credit scoring products strive to show their offering:

1) More accurately predicts creditworthiness than the competition's

2) Scores more consistently and can be applied across a wider demographic

Make no mistake, VantageScore has made some in-roads and indications are this will continue. So, best to understand how each model reacts to various factors in your file.

The analogy I put forth a year ago was that VS is like Japanese auto makers were in the 70's - constantly getting slammed but listening to and taking action to satisfy unmet customer needs. Things are different in the auto industry today. A similar thing is happening the credit scoring industry. The models being used now will be replaced in the "near" future and the evolutionary timeline [for broadly based "recent activity focused" models] is accelerating.

For an interesting read check out: "The Scoring of America"

To get an estimate of how scores from various models compare relative to each other and the overall population, follow the below link.

http://ficoforums.myfico.com/t5/Understanding-FICO-Scoring/The-many-flavors-of-FICO-Editions-version...