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Moderator Emeritus
Brammy
Posts: 5,436
Registered: ‎03-10-2007
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Re: Car Dealer Said they LEGALLY have to do a Hard Inquiry Even if paying cash!

[ Edited ]
But what does the post have to do with a car dealer's right to pull your CR when you are paying cash?   Further, anything that the Fed has a right to do wuld be based on suspiciou avtivity.  What the Federal Government has a right to do and what a ca dealer has a right to do are two different things.
 
When a person satets that they are paying 'cash' for a vehicle, I have never seen that mean that they are rolling a red wagon up to the door.  What that means is that they simply have financing without a need for the dealer intervention.  So if I walk up to a dealer with a cashiers check and valid identification which if enough toverify my identity, that does not make me a person of suspicion.  Or If I get the oan from my bank and they cut the check.
 
 
 
The following is included in the patriot act itself- From the house resolution bill
 

‘‘(e) Whoever knowingly violates section 2709(c) of

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this title, sections 625(d) or 626(c) of the Fair Credit Re8

porting Act (15 U.S.C. 1681u(d) or 1681v(c)), section

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1114(a)(3) or 1114(a)(5)(D) of the Right to Financial

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Privacy Act (12 U.S.C. 3414(a)(3) or 3414(a)(5)(D)), or

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section 802(b) of the National Security Act of 1947 (50

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U.S.C. 436(b)) shall be imprisoned for not more than one

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year, and if the violation is committed with the intent to

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obstruct an investigation or judicial proceeding, shall be

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imprisoned for not more than five years.’’.

 

Section 625 refers back to permissable purposes (604) for obtaining a CCR





Message Edited by Brammy on 10-05-2007 02:50 PM

Message Edited by Brammy on 10-05-2007 02:51 PM
Regular Contributor
ozgirl
Posts: 122
Registered: ‎09-01-2007
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Re: Car Dealer Said they LEGALLY have to do a Hard Inquiry Even if paying cash!

[ Edited ]
I think the reason it is relavent is that there are a number of car dealers who are using the Patriot Act to justify the practice of pulling a report --even for cash transactions. Clearly, you are correct--they do not have to pull a credit report. However, the Patriot Act requires dealerships to adopt and adhere to an acceptable Consumer Identification Program (CIP). The credit report has been deemed an acceptable document for meeting the CIP requirements--but clearly, there are other methods to verify id. So on the one hand, the dealership is compling with the law, but their method (the credit report) has a negative impact on consumers and can (and is probably) used improperly as a sales tool etc.. Also, employees are lead to believe that the credit report is the only viable means of verifying consumers identification. So misinformation abounds and is spread exponentially.

Also, if you read the Patriot Act, and really consider its intent--a large cash transaction for an automobile is cause for suspicion since apparently purchasing cars etc... for cash can be construed as a first step in the money laundering process. If the fed did not think it was suspicious they would not have gone to such great lengths to expand the definition of financial institution.

Yes, you are also right--people are not pulling up and offloading a suitcase full of Ben Franklins to pay for cars (well maybe some people do--but not me) But I found a number of cases where people have had the similar experience of being thoroughly scrutinized because they are not financing a car. One couple was even asked to provide their thumb-print and had that request attributed to the Patriot Act...then when they refused, the dealership refused to sell them the car and also refused to give them back all of their identifying documentation they had provided.

It is a scary time in our history--we are becoming a bit paranoid (and for good reason)

Message Edited by ozgirl on 10-05-2007 12:45 PM
Moderator Emeritus
Brammy
Posts: 5,436
Registered: ‎03-10-2007
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Re: Car Dealer Said they LEGALLY have to do a Hard Inquiry Even if paying cash!

[ Edited ]


ozgirl wrote:
I think the reason it is relavent is that there are a number of car dealers who are using the Patriot Act to justify the practice of pulling a report --even for cash transactions. Clearly, you are correct--they do not have to pull a credit report. However, the Patriot Act requires dealerships to adopt and adhere to an acceptable Consumer Identification Program (CIP). The credit report has been deemed an acceptable document for meeting the CIP requirements--but clearly, there are other methods to verify id. So on the one hand, the dealership is compling with the law, but their method (the credit report) has a negative impact on consumers and can (and is probably) used improperly as a sales tool etc.. Also, employees are lead to believe that the credit report is the only viable means of verifying consumers identification. So misinformation abounds and is spread exponentially.

That's just my point.  Reading this house resolution it appears that anyone who pulls credit citing the PA without permissible purposes is in violation of the above resolution.  I saw nothing in the actual patriot act that allows this outside of the federal government and that is only in the case of suspicious activity.  I see nothing suspicious in choosing your financing before walking into the dealrship and since most state ID requires a birth certificate, there can be no more thourough verification of identity than a state issued liscense or identification.
 
My point is that these dealerships are pulling credit, not under authority of the patriot act but in order to get a cut of finaning if they can talk you out of whatever means you had the ability to pay with when you walked in the door.  I dont know anyne who walks into a car dealership without at least a state-issued photo ID.
 
This section of the patriot act was designed to prevent just such abuse.
 
A financial institution has the right to run your report when you are conducting that type of transaction (taking out loans, opening accounts...etc.) but, as a comparison, not when you walk in for change of a dollar.



Message Edited by Brammy on 10-05-2007 03:40 PM
Regular Contributor
ozgirl
Posts: 122
Registered: ‎09-01-2007
0

Re: Car Dealer Said they LEGALLY have to do a Hard Inquiry Even if paying cash!

See my edited post above--
Moderator Emeritus
Brammy
Posts: 5,436
Registered: ‎03-10-2007
0

Re: Car Dealer Said they LEGALLY have to do a Hard Inquiry Even if paying cash!

[ Edited ]
See that is definitely against the law.... A Car dealership is not an arm of law enforcement.  They have no right to withold anyone's documents.  If the couple were paying by personal check, I understand the thumbprint as that is also required in some financial institutions if you are cashing a check and are not a customer. I can even understand a credit check in the case of a personal check.  My issue comes with the running of a credit check when a customer walks in with guranteed funds whther that be a cahierts check of a bank guaranteed check from a different source of financing.
 
The dealership clearly overstepped its bounds as the only thing they had a right to do was to refuse sell, which any merchant can do, and photocopy any documents presented to them.


Message Edited by Brammy on 10-05-2007 03:52 PM
Valued Contributor
TheNewWorldMan
Posts: 2,374
Registered: ‎03-15-2007
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Re: Car Dealer Said they LEGALLY have to do a Hard Inquiry Even if paying cash!

I would tell the dealership they have absolutely no business pulling my credit report for identification. I would tell them that credit reports are to establish an individual's creditworthiness.

If the dealership wished to verify my identity, I would tell them about these things called "ID cards," including drivers licenses, Social Security cards, and passports. I would permit them to view one of more of these items in my possession. And that would be all, end of story.
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