@Thomas_Thumb wrote:
@SouthJamaica wrote:
@Revelate wrote:
@SouthJamaica wrote:
@Anonymous wrote:Odd question I hope someone can answer. Do all FICO score models change at the same rate?
In other words, if FICO 8 increased 11 points, would all other models increase?
No, not at all. My scores at this moment range from 696 to 838. They all behave differently.
On the same bureau? Nuisance collection?
My lowest score is EX Bankcard 2.
My highest scores are EQ Bankcard 9 and TU Bankcard 8.
There are no negatives of any kind on any of the bureaus.
They all have basically the same data on this report except that:
EQ has 5 less accounts, failing to report 5 accounts which closed 6 months to a year ago, one of which is one of my oldest cards.
EQ is not reporting the one substantial balance that reported, a $2750 balance.
Since the one overriding negative thing about my profile is its newness (recent accounts, recent inquiries, etc), I can only conclude that the Bankcard 2 model brutally punishes recent credit acquisition behavior.
3B Report Data 5/6/17 EQ TU EX AAOA (yrs, mos) 2yrs3mos 2yrs8mos 2yrs8mos Cards reporting 4 of 29 7 of 29 7 of 29 Cards reporting % Inq under 12 mos 5 5 18 Revolving util % 1% 1% 1% Instalment bal/loan % 6.40% 6.40% 6.40% Scoring model FICO 9 827 817 813 FICO 8 785 804 783 FICO 04 733 *** *** FICO 04 *** 753 *** FICO 04 *** *** 731 FICO 98 *** *** 723 Vantage 3.0 Auto 9 833 825 822 Auto 8 783 828 791 Auto 04 729 *** Auto 04 *** 770 *** Auto 98 *** *** 741 Bankcard 9 838 824 824 Bankcard 8 803 838 818 Bankcard 04 731 *** *** Bankcard 04 *** 755 *** Bankcard 98 *** 696
PS My already limited value as a test case will probably be going away for awhile. Due to my appraisal of the macroeconomic situation, and my personal microeconomic factors, and without regard to FICO scores, I've decided that now was the time for me to do some real world transactions that will no doubt lower my scores. Basically I've decided to finally take advantage of the positive growth in my credit scores to take care of some real world things. It's all good but it will be using up some of my FICO capital. Needless to say if my adventure does happen to teach any FICO lessons, however embarrassing they may be, I will report back to my FICO masters
SJ, Thanks for the data set.
Not really sure why your Fico 9 scores are higher than your Fico 8 scores (except TU industry enhanced) while my Fico 8 industry enhanced are higher than 9my Fico 9 enhanced. The only two things I can think of are:
1) The threshold for account critical mass is higher on Fico 9 than Fico 8
2) Fico 9 penalizes short AAoA less than does Fico 4 and much less than does Fico 04 & Fico 98.
I do have the impression that FICO 9 is more forgiving of the various 'newness' factors -- i.e. oldest account, youngest account, average age of accounts, recent inquiries, which are the big damper on my scores.
It kinda looks like the EX Fico 98 bankcard model is dinging your score much more for too many open accounts reporting a balance than do the other models.
Usually I have only 2 or 3 cards reporting a balance, & haven't noticed the scores being any different.
Yes, there is a factor for # accounts reporting balance a balance (as opposed to % reporting a balance).
- Also looks like your closed car loan and open SSL with low B/L are helping your Fico 8 & Fico 9 scores but offer no help on Fico 04 and Fico 98.
- Length of positive payment history on accounts carry more weight on the older models.
- A short length for age of youngest account may be progressively more "harmful" as the models progress backward from Fico 9 => Fico 8 => Fico => 04 => Fico 98. [BTW - what is your age of youngest account? My guess is under 6 months age & possibly 3 months]
You give me too much credit. Almost every month my youngest account is 1 month old.
@SouthJamaica wrote:
@Revelate wrote:
@SouthJamaica wrote:
@Revelate wrote:
@SouthJamaica wrote:
@Anonymous wrote:Odd question I hope someone can answer. Do all FICO score models change at the same rate?
In other words, if FICO 8 increased 11 points, would all other models increase?
No, not at all. My scores at this moment range from 696 to 838. They all behave differently.
On the same bureau? Nuisance collection?
My lowest score is EX Bankcard 2.
My highest scores are EQ Bankcard 9 and TU Bankcard 8.
There are no negatives of any kind on any of the bureaus.
They all have basically the same data on this report except that:
EQ has 5 less accounts, failing to report 5 accounts which closed 6 months to a year ago, one of which is one of my oldest cards.
EQ is not reporting the one substantial balance that reported, a $2750 balance.
Since the one overriding negative thing about my profile is its newness (recent accounts, recent inquiries, etc), I can only conclude that the Bankcard 2 model brutally punishes recent credit acquisition behavior.
3B Report Data 5/6/17 EQ TU EX AAOA (yrs, mos) 2yrs3mos 2yrs8mos 2yrs8mos Cards reporting 4 of 29 7 of 29 7 of 29 Cards reporting % Inq under 12 mos 5 5 18 Revolving util % 1% 1% 1% Instalment bal/loan % 6.40% 6.40% 6.40% Scoring model FICO9 827 817 813 FICO8 785 804 783 FICO5 Mortgage 733 *** *** FICO4 Mortgage *** 753 *** FICO3 *** *** 731 FICO2 Mortgage *** *** 723 Vantage 3.0 Auto9 833 825 822 Auto8 783 828 791 Auto5 729 *** Auto4 *** 770 *** Auto2 *** *** 741 Bankcard9 838 824 824 Bankcard8 803 838 818 Bankcard5 731 *** *** Bankcard4 *** 755 *** Bankcard2 *** 696
PS My already limited value as a test case will probably be going away for awhile. Due to my appraisal of the macroeconomic situation, and my personal microeconomic factors, and without regard to FICO scores, I've decided that now was the time for me to do some real world transactions that will no doubt lower my scores. Basically I've decided to finally take advantage of the positive growth in my credit scores to take care of some real world things. It's all good but it will be using up some of my FICO capital. Needless to say if my adventure does happen to teach any FICO lessons, however embarrassing they may be, I will report back to my FICO masters
Haha SJ, Finances > FICO and there's zero point to building a credit score if you never use it... so enjoy your success!
Thanks
Bankcard though, sort of a whatever set of scores though it's a bit disheartening to see how low your mortgage scores are in general;
I don't think you should draw any conclusions from, or be disheartened by, my mortgage scores; my record is absolutely bereft of any hint of a mortgage, past or present. I think the mortgage scores penalize me for not having a mortgage in there. It's not that I haven't had mortgages, FICO just doesn't remember the old ones and doesn't seem to be aware of my existing one.
I managed to break 720 on my own dirty file two years ago, and now I'm not certain if I can even reach that point when I'm clean on EX/EQ.
Now you know I don't like those words. Can't we way 'untouched' vs 'bruised', or something?
On the flipside my TU Classic 04 which is arguably my dirtiest file (extra 30D late from 10/15, still hasn't deleted my 30/60D near 7 year lates, and my tax lien is still there too but zero scorable inquiries whereas both EX/EQ have too many to be ideal) is a 741 currently... somehow.
Unfortunately one bureau is not enough to UW a mortgage on, and there's no guaruntee as my 30/60 do drop off that my score will stay at that level, lost points as I got cleaner everywhere else on EX.
You should write more letters, or engage someone to write them for you
Mortgage scores = the scores used to underwrite a mortgage.
It's just FICO 04/98 classic scores, not the mortgage industry option score which to my knowledge isn't used anywhere to UW any mortgage application unless it's from a portfolio lender we haven't heard of yet. There's no extra weight to having a mortgage, unlike FICO 8 AU which does appear to want you to have an open auto loan at least according to my reason codes on Transunion currently or at least a recent one, not entirely sure how that one is tracked.
It's not lost on me that even FICO doesn't publish the mortgage industry options in their myFICO product, which gives you an idea of how irrelevant they are heh.
TT: my own scores tend to agree with the short history thing: FICO 9 < FICO 8/FICO 04/98 from penalty perspective; I'm not expecting that to change either once my negatives are gone.
I'm not certain where the FICO 8/04/98 line is drawn though, for a while my trimerge scores were ahead of my FICO 8 ones until I prettied up my installment utilization... now though with ugly installment utilization my FICO 8 scores are still higher everywhere except TU and the only salient difference between EX/EQ/TU besides inquiry distribution is I have one extra account on EX/EQ which appears to be a CFA... not sure if that's enough for a ~30-40 point swing (well less than that as I have 0 inquiries on TU which I know is worth at least 7 points on EQ Beacon 5 on my file, currently 742 on TU, <700 on both EQ/EX FICO 04) but it appears to be substantial on the older models.
I don't have the CFA tag anywhere on FICO 8 / FICO 9, not certain if that's just a lower weight or not even counted.
Anyway the FICO 8 increases could've been due to age of oldest account / AAOA changing over the past couple of years, whereas EQ Beacon 5.0 has been Dixie Flatlined as far as that algorithm goes.
@Thomas_Thumb wrote:
@Revelate wrote:Mortgage scores = the scores used to underwrite a mortgage.
It's just FICO 04/98 classic scores, not the mortgage industry option score which to my knowledge isn't used anywhere to UW any mortgage application unless it's from a portfolio lender we haven't heard of yet. There's no extra weight to having a mortgage, unlike FICO 8 AU which does appear to want you to have an open auto loan at least according to my reason codes on Transunion currently or at least a recent one, not entirely sure how that one is tracked.
It's not lost on me that even FICO doesn't publish the mortgage industry options in their myFICO product, which gives you an idea of how irrelevant they are heh.
I know there is a Fico 8 mortgage score that gained virtually no traction. It reportedly has 17 scorecards. I did post a score distribution graph of EX data for the model compared to Classic Fico 8 and some links to articles.
http://cashmoneylife.com/fico-8-mortgage-score-could-make-it-harder-to-get-approved/
Unrelated side notes:
1) EX Fico 04 is very stable - I only got it to drop from 830 one time (reported balances on 100% of open accounts => dropped to 811)
2) SJ appears to be addicted to opening new CC accounts and increasing aggregate CL. Will he slow down after going over $500,000 aggregate CL?
Yeah, the mortgage industry options were marketed in FICO 8 though they don't seem to be a sellable product at Experian anymore; and if one is being developed for FICO 9 it's not been released yet.
There were a couple additional industry options that never quite caught on (IL, PF) in addition to the mortgage one, entirely possible FICO simply reduced the numbers of algorithms figuring the others weren't profitable.