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Super Contributor
MidnightVoice
Posts: 8,157
Registered: ‎03-25-2007
0

Re: Disputing and Ethics



masdeocho wrote:

But PFDs and GWs are completely different animals from disputes -- you are acknowledging that the debt or baddie is yours, but you are asking the creditor or CA to understand your personal situation and extend some human kindness by deleting it.  That's very different from disputing a debt that you know you owe with the sole intention of getting a deletion.



What is your position on disputing a fully paid off baddie, rather than a debt still owing?
The slide from grace is really more like gliding
And I've found the trick is not to stop the sliding
But to find a graceful way of staying slid
Moderator Emeritus
masdeocho
Posts: 2,050
Registered: ‎04-17-2007
0

Re: Disputing and Ethics



MidnightVoice wrote:


What is your position on disputing a fully paid off baddie, rather than a debt still owing?

You dispute it as "paid," because it is.
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Bartender, bring another round of FICOtinis please!

9.4.2011: TU 805. EQ 815.
Valued Member
motoracer
Posts: 158
Registered: ‎06-15-2007
0

Re: Disputing and Ethics

ive been reading all these post, and im gonna say this which I think everone is thinking, if I have a late that shows up on my report, and I know I was late, im still going to dispute. because it is thier responsiblity to prove to the CRA that I was late, hoping that they just dont verify and the CRA delete(nothing unethical in that) That is what we are all doing, lets not kid ourselves.  Yes there is inaccurate info on our reports and we should dispute that to get it removed, but we all know one of the reasons we  come to this forum is to learn the rules, and loop holes of this credit score game.....I want to give an ethical example for you guys to think about,,,lets just say a certain creditor is known getting lates removed by just not responding  to disputes and we all hate lates with them,,,,we all would dispute. 
Established Contributor
trinigal
Posts: 578
Registered: ‎06-18-2007
0

Re: Disputing and Ethics



masdeocho wrote:


trinigal wrote:
 
In a country where for the most part you are nothing more than a 9 digit number, if you do not assert yourself you will get lost in the mix. 


So does this justify fibbing on your income tax?  On the amount of household income on your AmEx credit card application?
 
IMvery,very,veryHO, there's a difference between asserting yourself to get what you are entitled to, and just doing whatever you can to get whatever you want.
 


Didn't mean to head down that road.  I would never lie on my income tax......that's illegal innit? Yeah, I won't look too good in an orange jump suit, won't be too flattering to my girlie figure.
 
I say assert yourself I mean don't let things slide and accept things as they are.  If CAs, OCs, Utilities, etc kept records disputing accurate info would be a mute point.  but they don't and if they can't prove it they can't post it.  I can't see how you can be wrong for asking the CRA to prove it.  If they prove it, you move from there, if they can't, you get 10 pts. I just don't get how things work one way and if you try to make it work the other way you're unethical.
 
I've read post after post on here about people who were a day late, a few days late on paying something and OCs refused to adjust and just like that BAM! that person loses 50 pts and you know what, when you show up at the dealership to purchase a care and your score is 650 instead of 710 they don't give one hooots if your employer was late paying you, or your funds got deposited in the wrong account.  9.99% APR for you.  And what about CAP1 not reporting CLs, or CRA's assisting CAs in going after people? Is that ethical?
 
Institutions are sticking it to us everyday.  Anything you buy, someone is getting over on you.  Even when it's on sale!
 
So I'm very sorry, but I see nothing wrong with saying "prove it"
 

 
Frequent Contributor
flygirl
Posts: 440
Registered: ‎06-11-2007
0

Re: Disputing and Ethics

masdeocho wrote:
 
"So it's OK to dispute a collection that you know you owe because you can get away with it."
______________________________________________________________________________
 
Those words were never typed by me............but ya know what.......I think I'm done with this particular thread. Everybody is entitled to their own opinion. If you can sleep at night with the choices ya made, then so be it!!!!!!!!
Moderator Emeritus
masdeocho
Posts: 2,050
Registered: ‎04-17-2007
0

Re: Disputing and Ethics



flygirl wrote:
............but ya know what.......I think I'm done with this particular thread. Everybody is entitled to their own opinion. If you can sleep at night with the choices ya made, then so be it!!!!!!!!


I agree!
 
And I had better get back to work before I lose my job and then get in more CC trouble and debt and have more things to dispute .. :smileyhappy:
-----------------
Bartender, bring another round of FICOtinis please!

9.4.2011: TU 805. EQ 815.
Senior Contributor
Noah_Bodie
Posts: 4,635
Registered: ‎03-11-2007
0

Re: Disputing and Ethics



trinigal wrote:
In a country where for the most part you are nothing more than a 9 digit number, if you do not assert yourself you will get lost in the mix. 


The good news for you, the MyFico member, is there are but a handful of folks here and on other credit boards. Some are on multiple boards so the number of folks is further diminished. Might be 50K on credit boards in a nation of 300M and probably well over 200M with credit, somewhere with someone. How much is that?
 
Well, 50K over 200M is 1/40th of 1 percent. Put another way, just being here, you are 1 in 4,000. This is a nation where 1 in 3 admits they never check their credit.
 
With odds like 1 in 4,000, and if those odds translated to other parts of your life, you could walk into any casino in Vegas and walk out having made money while having a good time. Were you in the military, you'd be elite special forces. And income? The top in 1 in 4,000 earners? Ha! Top 1 percent earns $350K or more. Top 0.025 percent probably earns a million a year plus.
 
The message is that you are at a tremendous advantage. Avail yourself of it. Credit information is furthering a divide between those who know and those who don't know. Over time, more of those who don't know are going to try and find out and become those who do know. But many aren't going to have the time, inclination, tenacity, etc. to gain the knowledge.
 
A small change to the CROA could make it easy for folks to set up their own at home CRIO (Credit Repair Information Organization). CRIOs would collect a fee to teach people what they can learn free of charge here.
 
Is there any difference between my proposed CRIO and a tax preparer you pay to prepare your return? You the taxpayer are still responsible, but the tax preparer has learned, supposedly, how to prepare tax returns in compliance with IRS code while getting the tax payer every possible legal advantage. [I say supposedly because it took a number of Emails between me and my HR Block preparer to get my return right this year. Meant the difference between owing $200 and getting back about $1200.] You are not committing either a legal or ethical violation for obtaining every possible exemption and deduction allowed in the tax code.
 
Probably a lot of folks who'd pay you $100, $200, maybe $500 to help them with their credit. Do that 2 or 3 times a month as a part-time business, for 12 months (tax season ends, credit season runs all year long) and that's a nice little chunk of money.
 
Finally, another sign of the informational divide widening. Saw on CIC a link to a site that is advertising it's product to CAs. Basically, they are trolling the courts for FDCPA violation cases, getting the name of the complainant, and selling those names as a list of people who have sued over FDCPA violations. Theory being the CAs can reduce their risk of getting sued for FDCPA violations by removing from their call lists debtors who are known to have sued. Good for the CAs. Bad for the consumer. This kind of protection might make some CAs believe, "OK, I got rid of all those darned CB and CIC listers who sue CAs. Now I can really turn up the heat on the debtors I call. Bwa-ha-ha!"
 
Senior Contributor
Noah_Bodie
Posts: 4,635
Registered: ‎03-11-2007
0

Re: Disputing and Ethics

On disputing lates.
 
GMAC had a late showing from mid 2004 on my now PIF car loan. [Still have another GMAC car loan on our minivan.] When I discovered it, I called GMAC and asked. Their customer service is quite good, and not outsourced. Perhaps a little sterile feeling and devoid of any emotion, but very factual, knowledgeable and easy to work with--at least for me.
 
They said they had no record of me ever late on either loan, which is what I had thought. I asked, so what could they do to fix this. They said dispute it with the CRA. I did, and it came back verified. Now I'm getting a little anxious over this. Start going thru bank statements to see what was cashed and when.
 
They had this loan on automatic draft. When I moved about 3 years ago, I kept the old bank account from my previous residence open long enough for payment on the loan to clear that month. Then contacted them and gave them my new bank info and faxed a voided check along with their request form.
 
Next month, I get a notice saying, payment not made. I call and inquire. They transposed 2 of the digits in either the routing number or account number, and they had a faxed copy (on superfine) in hand. Said over the phone, yep, I can clearly see the numbers and we goofed. I asked about late reporting, they told me not to worry because GMAC doesn't report as late until 30 days beyond the due date. We were only at about 10 days. Reconfirmed the routing number and account number, and payment came out the next day or two later. At the time, I presumed all was right. But this seems to have been what caused the late to show up on one of the CRAs.
 
Me trying to do right and call to correct, but with nothing in writing, recorded or anything, I felt like I was on shaky ground to prove I was right and never late. Preponderance of evidence is the standard, but "can I prove that I'm 51 percent correct" isn't always a consoling thought.
 
I'd been told to dispute with the CRA, I did, and it didn't work. Next step was my "weighted GW letter" which did work.
 
In the words of IAB Sgt. Martens, "There is no right and wrong. Everything is a situation."
 
Established Contributor
trinigal
Posts: 578
Registered: ‎06-18-2007
0

Re: Disputing and Ethics



Noah_Bodie wrote:


trinigal wrote:
In a country where for the most part you are nothing more than a 9 digit number, if you do not assert yourself you will get lost in the mix. 


The good news for you, the MyFico member, is there are but a handful of folks here and on other credit boards. Some are on multiple boards so the number of folks is further diminished. Might be 50K on credit boards in a nation of 300M and probably well over 200M with credit, somewhere with someone. How much is that?
 
Well, 50K over 200M is 1/40th of 1 percent. Put another way, just being here, you are 1 in 4,000. This is a nation where 1 in 3 admits they never check their credit.
 
With odds like 1 in 4,000, and if those odds translated to other parts of your life, you could walk into any casino in Vegas and walk out having made money while having a good time. Were you in the military, you'd be elite special forces. And income? The top in 1 in 4,000 earners? Ha! Top 1 percent earns $350K or more. Top 0.025 percent probably earns a million a year plus.
 
The message is that you are at a tremendous advantage. Avail yourself of it. Credit information is furthering a divide between those who know and those who don't know. Over time, more of those who don't know are going to try and find out and become those who do know. But many aren't going to have the time, inclination, tenacity, etc. to gain the knowledge.
 
A small change to the CROA could make it easy for folks to set up their own at home CRIO (Credit Repair Information Organization). CRIOs would collect a fee to teach people what they can learn free of charge here.
 
Is there any difference between my proposed CRIO and a tax preparer you pay to prepare your return? You the taxpayer are still responsible, but the tax preparer has learned, supposedly, how to prepare tax returns in compliance with IRS code while getting the tax payer every possible legal advantage. [I say supposedly because it took a number of Emails between me and my HR Block preparer to get my return right this year. Meant the difference between owing $200 and getting back about $1200.] You are not committing either a legal or ethical violation for obtaining every possible exemption and deduction allowed in the tax code.
 
Probably a lot of folks who'd pay you $100, $200, maybe $500 to help them with their credit. Do that 2 or 3 times a month as a part-time business, for 12 months (tax season ends, credit season runs all year long) and that's a nice little chunk of money.
 
Finally, another sign of the informational divide widening. Saw on CIC a link to a site that is advertising it's product to CAs. Basically, they are trolling the courts for FDCPA violation cases, getting the name of the complainant, and selling those names as a list of people who have sued over FDCPA violations. Theory being the CAs can reduce their risk of getting sued for FDCPA violations by removing from their call lists debtors who are known to have sued. Good for the CAs. Bad for the consumer. This kind of protection might make some CAs believe, "OK, I got rid of all those darned CB and CIC listers who sue CAs. Now I can really turn up the heat on the debtors I call. Bwa-ha-ha!"
 


Which proves my point Noah (i think....lol)......assert yourself and get in the know.  Another great point by the way.
Valued Member
motoracer
Posts: 158
Registered: ‎06-15-2007
0

Re: Disputing and Ethics

great point noah

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