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FICO 2008: Better, But Not Good Enough

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Anonymous
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Re: FICO 2008: Better, But Not Good Enough



700Man wrote:

Please...if FairIsaac's system were that good, they wouldn't be updating it.


Makes no sense.
 
Plenty of "good" things are updated all the time.
 
 


Message Edited by sidewinder on 04-26-2008 10:00 PM
Message 21 of 92
Anonymous
Not applicable

Re: FICO 2008: Better, But Not Good Enough

Not quite sure where these people come from, but they obviously are not well versed at all on how the FICO formula works.
 
It is a formula based on risk.  Period.   They have literally reviewed millions and millons of credit files and add or subtract points based on factors that increase or decrease the possibility of defaulting on a loan (mtg, HELOC, student, auto, credit card, etc.).   It is really quite simple.
 
For example, let's take income.   Just because someone works at Microsoft, or "Goldman Sachs" as was said, does NOT make him or her a better credit risk.  Sure they make more, and even a lot more than the 18 year old working at McDonald's.   But either individual is as likely to be late in paying a credit card or auto loan or defaulting on a loan as the other.  
 
700 man obviously believes that the Goldman Sachs person is and always will be smarter with his money than the McDonald's person - will never gamble, get in over his head financially, will never buy a house that he cannot afford, will never run up credit card bills.   It is either pretty naive or pretty arrogant to this this.
 
What do you suggest?  We profile not only by income, but by education level, religion, ethnicity, even race?  Give me a break.
Message 22 of 92
Anonymous
Not applicable

Re: FICO 2008: Better, But Not Good Enough

Let me say that fico is not a perfect system, however as a person who looks at credit on a daily bases, Some of the most influential individuals in our community has some of the worst credit scores. Therefore oftentimes, I find myself struggling with how to make the loan for them. On home loans they are the ones getting 75% LTV and they are the ones utlizing CD's to secure loans that they are acquiring. I recently made a loan to a judge, his scores were in the low 500 he always pays but he is always late thus it always comes up past due on my portfolio. I said all that to say one can not tell by how much individuals make as to how they pay their bills. And fico can only utlize past experiences to predict future payment predictions.
 
You do make some good points that I think fico08 will be addressing, but income is not one that tells those of us who make the decision to lend or not is a viable one. We are taught to use the three C's Character, Capital, Credit.
Message 23 of 92
marty56
Super Contributor

Re: FICO 2008: Better, But Not Good Enough



Boscoe wrote:
Not quite sure where these people come from, but they obviously are not well versed at all on how the FICO formula works.
 

 
And despite their job/money they also got on the wrong side of their FICO score and thus they rant about how unfair the system is.
 
FICO dosent measure how we manage our money beyond our credit.
 
 



Message Edited by marty56 on 04-27-2008 05:49 PM
1/25/2021: FICO 850 EQ 848 TU 847 EX
Message 24 of 92
Anonymous
Not applicable

Re: FICO 2008: Better, But Not Good Enough

well the score is just a guide.--you still have to apply and report your income. time at job, debts, etc before getting the actual credit.  But to have a credit reporting agency with all that info--that is crazy.  Your score does not guarantee anything.  Just take a look at the credit from people in congress.


Message Edited by casinoannie97 on 04-27-2008 05:34 PM
Message 25 of 92
Anonymous
Not applicable

Re: FICO 2008: Better, But Not Good Enough

Some of what you stated makes perfect sense to me, while some makes absolutely no sense (to me). 
 
1.  Consideration of financial assets - Well, this would help determine a persons ability to pay a certain debt, but, that's for the lender to determine, and not FICO.  Remember, lenders look at much more than just FICO.  As well, just because a person has tons of assets, does not mean that person does not already have other plans for them,nor does it mean it's at the person's disposal.
 
2.  Inquiries.  I agree.  I mean, I understand that some apply for a bunch of things last minute when desperate, but, inquiries over a period of months, while maintaining great credit should evince the person is not in any type of hardship.  Two years is way too long for inquiries to be considered; I'd say, 6-months to a year tops.
 
3.  You only get hit with 30-day latenesses if you're at least 30-days late.  I totally disagree with you here.  If you're 30-days late, that could be a clear sign something is wrong.  If you're 29 days late, it will not be reported as anything other than "paid as agreed".
 
4.  Utilization.  Yes, I totally agree with you here!!!  Most people I know who charge their cards just keep putting everything on one card for convenience, and it's not a reflection of whether you're maxed out on finances and cannot afford to pay.  If this is going to be considered, it should be on overall limits vs overall balances.  Maxing out a $500 card when there are three or four more with $5000 limits each is not a sign to me that someone is having financial troubles!
 
5.  Job history.  I totally disagree with you here.  Frequent changes of jobs has nothing to do with credit-worthiness, nor willingness/determination to pay.  I know folks who constantly switch jobs and still maintain excellent credit.  One of my old employees works at a place no longer than two or three months, and he's in the upper 700's, as he pays his bills!  Shaky work history, and he's a pot-head, but, he refuses to ruin his credit.
 
6.  Fixed payments.  I think the current system is good.  The standard for purchasing a vehicle or home are much lower than those of obtaining a credit card.  I think most folks will pay their mortgage and car payments before paying credit cards. Why?  Well, which would you rather give up?  A house, a car, or a credit card you can use to purchase tons of things that cannot be taken from you?  Makes plenty sense to me the way it is!
 
7.  Income verification.  Huh?  The lenders already verify your income; why should that have anything to do with FICO?  Plus, the amount a person makes has absolutely nothing to do with whether he/she will pay bills.  I know more folks who don't make much money who are more responsible than folks who make much more.  It seems the more a person makes, the more that person can lose if he/she stumbles, as the folks who make a lot tend to incur a lot of debt!
 
Alas, what you stated about missing a few payments but not being 30-days late doesn't make much sense.  If you were less than 30-days late, your credit file should not show that you were 30-days late.  30-days late means just that...not a few days late.  Either you are not telling us all the truth, or you need to send some letters out to your lenders telling them to fix your credit files!
Message 26 of 92
Anonymous
Not applicable

Re: FICO 2008: Better, But Not Good Enough

Cheddar, I mis-typed....I meant they were really people whose scores SHOULD have been in the 500's or 600's and instead were graded closer to 720-750. People games the scoring system, lied, committed fraud, and also used that 'authorized signer/borrow someone's credit score' rig quite frequently since 2005.

I spoke to the president of a large local bank. He told me that FICO used to be EXTREMELY reliable for years -- decades, really -- when credit was much less ubiquitous, people felt an obligation to pay off debts, and they didn't go overboard. But the whole thing began to unravel bigtime about 2002-03 when lending and scoring systems were gamed.

I don't blame Fair Isaac -- but I do think that they would be doing the right thing for both good and bad credits by getting the scores more accurate. I think including more variables is a means toward that end. If the variables I cited don't work, eliminate them or underweight them. But they DO work -- and maybe that's why they aren't being included.
 
Huh?  I don't get this!  Folks with scores in the 720-750 range are folks who have established a significant history of paying their debts on time, and with low balances.  I do not know of a single person with high balances on their credit cards, collections, or otherwise, would have such a high score.  Again, LENDERS are supposed to use FICO as a GUIDE...not as something etched in stone.  A person with a 750 FICO that claims they only earn $500 monthly should not be qualified for a $2000/monthly mortgage, and that has absolutely nothing to do with FICO, but everything to do with the lender.
 
With your logic, it's like saying a person who only earns $30k applying for a loan on a $50k trailor should have a 500 score, while a person earning $1M annually applying for a loan on a $50M estate should have an 800, right?  Doesn't make sense.  It should be based on patterns of payment, while the lenders do their job to determine if everything matches their standards.  FICO is merely a guide and one tool that should be used in the process.
Message 27 of 92
marty56
Super Contributor

Re: FICO 2008: Better, But Not Good Enough

DW has a 806 TU score and while we both would qualify for the best rates on a car loan, I can get a larger loan because I make more and thus can make a higher montrly payment.
 
 FCIO +  Income + DTI = proper loan
1/25/2021: FICO 850 EQ 848 TU 847 EX
Message 28 of 92
Anonymous
Not applicable

Re: FICO 2008: Better, But Not Good Enough

but that should have nothing to do with fico.  the fact that your salary is higher is for lender's eyes.
Message 29 of 92
Anonymous
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Re: FICO 2008: Better, But Not Good Enough

I think that was his point.
Message 30 of 92
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