Question regarding First National Collection Bureau

[Anonymous]

I received a letter from First National Collection Bureau regarding an offer to settle a debt on behalf of Jefferson Capital Systems, LLC. I know this is a valid debt that is mine, but it is over 7 years old. My question, if anyone can help, is how do I know if I accept this settlemen offer that the money will satisfy the original debt (Texaco gas card) considering it is now going through 2 agencies (First National and Jefferson Capital)?

I would like to settle this, but want to make sure that I'm not getting ripped off and sending money to someone who is not satisfying the actual debt. Can anyone give me advice?

[llecs]

Great question. Based on personal experience, and wanting to do the right thing by paying all I owed whenever possible, I would not pay it and here's why:

I too have/am dealing with FNCB. They also are trying to collect on a debt claimed by Jefferson Capital. In my case, I had a CO with First Premier back in 1997. The amount CO'd was about $300. First Premier sold it to Jefferson and Jefferson exactly doubled the amount owed from $300 to $600 in one month and claimed $300 of it was for collection fees which later learned was illegal to add. Back before I found these forums, I paid the $300 which First Premier claimed I owed only a month prior with a letter to Jefferson saying that this is all I will pay (bad move). Jefferson cashed my check and never credited the $300 payment. About a year later, Jefferson attempted to collect again and added a $600 fee this time placing the balance over $1200 owed after interest and again with a notation of a collection fee. I ignored their letters and time passed.

Fast forward to finding these forums in 2007, the amount creeped up to over $1500 after interest and then Jefferson sold or assigned the debt to FNCB and FNCB increased the amount to $1850 upon last check. It is well past CRTP so it won't report and past my state's SOL, so I cannot be sued. This is the first time I can recall that I offered advice not to pay a debt (I always say pay all that you owe), but because Jefferson is at play here and I firmly believe that FNCB is associated with them (even their letters are the same), then I have to suggest to ignore it.

If you do opt to pay, and is a noble thing to do, just be careful. Jefferson has been in a bunch of legal trouble lately with both the FDIC (due to their CC offers based on past debts) and with the FTC. States' AGs have been on them too. FNCB is associated with them too. Be careful. Keep everything in writing an dknow that a payment can possibly reset your SOL in your state.

BTW, it appears you are past the 7-yr CRTP but check and double check to make sure you are out of SOL. Maybe my answer would be different if you were inside SOL.

[Anonymous]

Thanks so much for the info. I have a couple of followup questions, if you have the time. With this debt being over 7 years old, does it still negatively impact my credit rating? I get so confused with how the laws work with this. I have several very old outstanding debts, most of which are well over 7 years old or will be in the next 12 months. I am only now pulling myself out of debt and have been working through CESI credit repair program as well as on my own to make good on as many of these debts as I can. It's such a sketchy world with these collection agencies and would prefer not to deal with them if I can help it, but wanted to know how not paying a debt that is over 7 years old will look on my credit report.

Also, I am in the middle of a payment agreement with a collection agency called LHR. I am settling for $400 on a debt they have as $2412.04 (though I'm sure that has been bulked up over time as it was a Radio Shack store card that, if I remember correctly, was about a $1000.00 limit). I wanted to know if you have any knowledge of LHR and their practices. I am able to make payments online and when I entered into this agreement with them they told me that when I log into my account through their website that it would still show the full amount due, but to only paid per the agreement. Now that I'm thinking about that, it seems fishy, considering how shady all collection agencies seem to be. I'm must curious if I'm making these payments to these people only to have them turn around and say I still owe the $2000.00 plus that will be left after the payments per my agreement are made. Why wouldn't my account online with them reflect the agreement we entered into? I do have everything from them in writing, either letter or email including receipts of each installment payment, but stil feel a bit suspicious about the whole thing.

[llecs]

If it isn't on any of the three credit reports (be sure to pull from annualcreditreport.com for free if you haven't done so), then it isn't hurting your credit. FICO only reads what is listed on your CR and if it isn't showing, then it isn't hurting your FICO score. Also, based on federal law of the Fair Credit Reporting Act, a negative account, like a CA, must be removed 7-7.5 years from the DOFD of the org. debt. A CA cannot report beyond that time frame. I will mention that Jefferson re-aged my DOFD to make it appear newer and report longer, but I provided proof to the CRA that Jefferson re-aged it illegally and the CRA deleted it in a hurry. That happened right around the 8th yr mark.

BTW, DOFD is the date you first went delinquent with the OC and never recovered. With a CC, for example, you'll see a 30 day late, then a 60, then a 90 and so forth. That first month you were at 30 days and never paid to be current is the DOFD. DOFD is listed on your EQ reports. On TU and EX, you'll see a drop off date and you can subtract 7 yrs from that to find DOFD. If these debts aren't reporting and you know they are over 7 yrs old since first going late, then it is too old to report.

Always be careful in dealing with any CA. Many are legit and do things within the law. Some, like Jefferson, do not. Always keep EVERYTHING in writing and never ever call them. Their word is never their bond and they will say and do anything to get you to pay. Also, do not pay with a check and don't pay online. Some very rare CAs have actually lifted banking info and used it for personal use. Also, if they back out of their agreement with you (again keep all agreements in writing), then they now have your banking info by which to garnish if they ever sued. Pay only with a cashier's check or money order.

I've heard of LHR but never dealt with them. If they are not reporting and you want to take care of it to avoid future calls, letters, etc., then I would not pay online but would enclose a copy of their settlement agreement of $400 in a letter and include a money order for $400. If they were reporting then I'd do it differently by send a DV. If they verify, then I'd send a PFD for the $400. If they accept, then I'd mail off the $400 in a money order with a copy of their PFD acceptance and they'll delete.

[RobertEG]

Once an item of information is excluded from your CR due to its age, FICO no longer scores it.

When the item of information is a late payment on the OC account, or a charge off or collection, there are firm, dates certain for their continued inclusion in your CR.  There should be no question about those dates, for they are clearly set forth in FCRA 605(a).  Dont look at these dates as being based on the age of the "debt."

For monthly deliquencies in your CR (e.g., 30/60/90+ lates), each of these individually cease to be included in your CR after 7 years from their individual dates of delinquency, under FCRA 605(a)(5).

For any charge-off or collection included in CR, they both drop on the same date.  To find that date, you need to first determine the DOFD on the OC account.

This will be the first date, in your most recent chain of delinquecies prior to the CO or CA.  Usuallly, but not always, this will be the date of the 30-day late that started that last chain of delinquencies.  Once you have that DOFD, then you add 180-days to it, pursuant to FCRA 605(c), and then it will cease to be included in your CR after 7 years from that date, pursuant to FCRA 605(a)(4) and 605(c).  This is approx 7 1/2 years from the DOFD.

Be careful about using "projected deletion dates" in your CR, and then trying to count back from that date to determine your DOFD.  That is often not very accurate.

For one thing, you dont know the formula used by the CRA to calculate the projected deletion date.  While the period for inclusion of collections and charge-offs is 7 years, you dont know date the CRA calculated this date to run from.  Technically under the statute, the 7 year period does not begin until 180 days after the DOFD.  But the CRA may have just  used the DOFD itself.