Questions for the Magistrates (Yet another PFD thread)

[NoMelonsNoLemon]

Is this statement true or false...

It is illegal to make a payment for the CA to remove items from your CR.

This statement is the bane of both Debt Collectors and Customers alike. What happens is Debt Collectors hear, can I pay you to remove this from my CR, which causes them to say, it is illegal for us to .... and you to say your ignorant and thus starts the bickering, it makes them want to cause us more problems, and when we hear them reply it is illegal for .... it makes us want to take a chainsaw, duct tape, a leash and....[ very long explicit violent explanation edited for your time, innocence, and plausible deniability ]

The short of it is anytime they hear anything about removing and CR they do not listen but rather respond as trained monkeys with a canned explanation that .... blah blah blah, and they know they are not wrong because they have to take a test on it every year, they do not even give into consideration the whole picture.

Brings me to what we currently have, the PFD example letter Tuscani so graciously provided us. Today as I was on the phone, I tried to cite to the ignorant debt collector where and what law they are speaking of versus what I was asking them to do. For those of you who believe I was able to educate the debt collector or believe in telekinesis, please raise my hand.

So I set my mind in motion ... and began thinking of some way I could improve my position if someone was willing to work with me. On my 45 minute drive home I thought of a few things:

1) How to improve the PFD letter highlighting the point that accepting money from a debtor to solely pay monies to have a CR improved is illegal, however paying a debt and the CA removing the debt is legal. I do not know if it would be better to put this information into the letter or add a generic letter in with the PFD making reference to it.

2) Being armed with the ability to cite the law (i.e. The article number and all references to the laws) to educate the ignorant party. Something to the effect of stating okay if I can cite the articles and you can verify with the FTC or whoever, would you be willing to send me / fax me a letter stating that you will remove the debt from my CR if I make payment?

3) Could someone post the articles and laws that pertain to issue, a way to prove it false, line item by line item. Not a link to the site where you can read the whole thing but just the article piece and explanations, so that we can dissect it and make very clear explanations to include in a PFD type of a letter. Kind of like paint by numbers for CA's and collectors alike.

Thank you for reading this post and any replies.

Forwards or Backwards: NoMelonsNoLemon

[NoMelonsNoLemon]

Little Bump, really looking for some help on this, I have done a few searches but can not find anything on where it talks about this or is there case law on this??

[Anonymous]

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NoMelonsNoLemon wrote:

Is this statement true or false...

It is illegal to make a payment for the CA to remove items from your CR.

This statement is the bane of both Debt Collectors and Customers alike. What happens is Debt Collectors hear, can I pay you to remove this from my CR, which causes them to say, it is illegal for us to .... and you to say your ignorant and thus starts the bickering, it makes them want to cause us more problems, and when we hear them reply it is illegal for .... it makes us want to take a chainsaw, duct tape, a leash and....[ very long explicit violent explanation edited for your time, innocence, and plausible deniability ]

The short of it is anytime they hear anything about removing and CR they do not listen but rather respond as trained monkeys with a canned explanation that .... blah blah blah, and they know they are not wrong because they have to take a test on it every year, they do not even give into consideration the whole picture.

Brings me to what we currently have, the PFD example letter Tuscani so graciously provided us. Today as I was on the phone, I tried to cite to the ignorant debt collector where and what law they are speaking of versus what I was asking them to do. For those of you who believe I was able to educate the debt collector or believe in telekinesis, please raise my hand.

So I set my mind in motion ... and began thinking of some way I could improve my position if someone was willing to work with me. On my 45 minute drive home I thought of a few things:

1) How to improve the PFD letter highlighting the point that accepting money from a debtor to solely pay monies to have a CR improved is illegal, however paying a debt and the CA removing the debt is legal. I do not know if it would be better to put this information into the letter or add a generic letter in with the PFD making reference to it.

2) Being armed with the ability to cite the law (i.e. The article number and all references to the laws) to educate the ignorant party. Something to the effect of stating okay if I can cite the articles and you can verify with the FTC or whoever, would you be willing to send me / fax me a letter stating that you will remove the debt from my CR if I make payment?

3) Could someone post the articles and laws that pertain to issue, a way to prove it false, line item by line item. Not a link to the site where you can read the whole thing but just the article piece and explanations, so that we can dissect it and make very clear explanations to include in a PFD type of a letter. Kind of like paint by numbers for CA's and collectors alike.

Thank you for reading this post and any replies.

Forwards or Backwards: NoMelonsNoLemon

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It would be illegal to pay for delete! like payola.....it is not illegal to pay & bill & have it deleted.

exzmp:  you owe JoeSmow CA  $150    and pay $150 & have it deleted

illegal   do not owe JoeSmow anything & offer to pay $XXX  just to delete it.

Message Edited by HappyDays on 08-22-2007 09:06 PM

[NoMelonsNoLemon]

Right and that is what I am saying, however when I ask over the phone if they will remove the Man has oppressed the collector at the other end of the phone, and like trained monkeys they have no ideal what I am talking about, only their canned response.

Would it be great in order to be a debt collector you would have to meet a criteria

1) Your fico has to be 660+

2) You have to have successfuly remove a mark on your credit.

[George2037]

I see exactly where you are coming from.  It was not to long ago several companies claimed to be able to clean up your credit and have items deleted from you CR in exchange for money.  When a CA recieves a PFD letter they confuse it with an attempt on your behalf to have the TL deleted in exchange for money.  Mabe if the PFD was more of a PFR (Pay for Removal), stating that you will pay the debt only if the CA agrees to stop reporting and remove all claims to validity to the debt.

For example I took the PFD Letter and changed the First sentence in the second paragraph and all words delete to remove (*Note: I have not used this it's just a suggestion*):

"In the spirit of compromise, I am willing to pay this account IN FULL (or settlement percentage) if you agree to immediate stop reporting and remove all claims to the validity of this account from any and all credit reporting agencies (Equifax, Experian and TransUnion). "

Original Read:

"In the spirit of compromise, I am willing to pay this account IN FULL (or settlement percentage) if you agree to immediate deletion of this account from any and all credit reporting agencies (Equifax, Experian and TransUnion). "

[Anonymous]

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NoMelonsNoLemon wrote:

Is this statement true or false...

It is illegal to make a payment for the CA to remove items from your CR.

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This statement is FALSE - there is no law regarding PFD.  However, let me explain why some creditors won't agree to do the PFD.

Section 609(c)(2)(E) of the FCRA of September '96 states that "a consumer reporting agency is not required to remove accurate derogatory information from a consumer's file, unless the information is outdated under Section 605 or cannot be verified".  It means that it's not illegal for a creditor to remove items from your CR, BUT they do not have to delete the items if they don't want to unless the DOLA of the item is 7 years old or older OR they cannot properly verify the debt.

Some creditors (mostly credit card companies and larger collection agencies) do claim that they have signed agreements with the credit bureaus that they will not allow a negative listing to be deleted upon settlement, which is why a number of them don't agree to the PFD.   However, the user agreement between the credit bureaus and the creditors states that the creditor won't report inaccurate information to the credit bureau.  Some creditors think that since the entry is (to the best of their knowledge) accurate, then having the credit bureau delete an accurate entry is a violation of the agreement.

However, some creditors will do a PFD, especially if you're paying the full balance.  

Message Edited by JennLewis on 08-23-2007 10:19 AM

[Anonymous]

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George2037 wrote:

I see exactly where you are coming from.  It was not to long ago several companies claimed to be able to clean up your credit and have items deleted from you CR in exchange for money.  When a CA recieves a PFD letter they confuse it with an attempt on your behalf to have the TL deleted in exchange for money.  Mabe if the PFD was more of a PFR (Pay for Removal), stating that you will pay the debt only if the CA agrees to stop reporting and remove all claims to validity to the debt.

For example I took the PFD Letter and changed the First sentence in the second paragraph and all words delete to remove (*Note: I have not used this it's just a suggestion*):

"In the spirit of compromise, I am willing to pay this account IN FULL (or settlement percentage) if you agree to immediate stop reporting and remove all claims to the validity of this account from any and all credit reporting agencies (Equifax, Experian and TransUnion). "

Original Read:

"In the spirit of compromise, I am willing to pay this account IN FULL (or settlement percentage) if you agree to immediate deletion of this account from any and all credit reporting agencies (Equifax, Experian and TransUnion). "

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George, I think that your wording is EXCELLENT.   

[George2037]

Thanks, this is how I would change the entire letter (wait for approval from the experts to approve before using it):

Collection Agency
1212 Maple St
City, State Zip

Re: Collection Account for Original Creditor Account #: 00000xxxx

Amount: $25.00

To Whom It May Concern:

This letter is to inform you that the validity of this debt is disputed. I am not sure of the account number, as I have never heard from you regarding this account. The account number I have is the one listed on my Experian credit report – which omits the last few digits.

In the spirit of compromise, I am willing to pay this account IN FULL (or settlement percentage) if you agree to immediate stop reporting and remove all claims to the validity of this account from any and all credit reporting agencies (Equifax, Experian and TransUnion). The purpose of this settlement is merely to have this item removed from my credit files. It is not to be construed as an acknowledgment of liability for this debt in any form.  Again I have no knowledge of this debt and to avoid a lengthy dispute process I am offering this out of goodwill to Collection Agency and Myself.

If you agree to the terms and accept this agreement, certified funds for the settlement amount of twenty-five dollars ($25.00) will be sent to Collection Agency in exchange for full removal of ALL references regarding this account from my credit files and full satisfaction of the debt. As certified funds will be used for payment, there shall be no waiting period regarding the removal of this account from the credit reporting agencies records.

Collection Agency agrees to remove ALL information regarding this account from the credit reporting agencies WITHIN TEN CALENDAR (10) DAYS following receipt of payment as specified above and will not discuss the terms of this settlement with anyone, excluding your client on this account. If contacted by any third party, including credit-reporting agencies, Collection Agency will not acknowledge that any settlement offer was made, accepted or executed and will, in fact, deny knowledge of any such account.

If you agree to the above terms, please prepare a letter on your company letterhead explicity agreeing to the same terms as the above settlement offer and have it signed by an authorized representative of Collection Agency. It will be implied that this letter shall constitute a legally binding contract, enforceable under the laws of my state.

Your response must be postmarked no later than 15 days from your receipt of this settlement offer or this offer will be withdrawn and I will request full validation of this alleged debt, as provided for by the Fair Debt Collection Practices Act.

If the legality of this request is in question this is the quoted section of such FCRA that would apply: Section 609(c)(2)(E) of the FCRA of September '96 states that "a consumer reporting agency is not required to remove accurate derogatory information from a consumer's file, unless the information is outdated under Section 605 or cannot be verified".

Please address all correspondence regarding this account to:

You
123 Any Street
City, State Zip

Message Edited by George2037 on 08-23-2007 11:52 AM

Message Edited by George2037 on 08-23-2007 12:01 PM

Message Edited by George2037 on 08-23-2007 12:01 PM

Message Edited by George2037 on 08-23-2007 12:01 PM

[Anonymous]

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JennLewis wrote:

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NoMelonsNoLemon wrote:

Is this statement true or false...

It is illegal to make a payment for the CA to remove items from your CR.

---

This statement is FALSE - there is no law regarding PFD.  However, let me explain why some creditors won't agree to do the PFD.

Section 609(c)(2)(E) of the FCRA of September '96 states that "a consumer reporting agency is not required to remove accurate derogatory information from a consumer's file, unless the information is outdated under Section 605 or cannot be verified".  It means that it's not illegal for a creditor to remove items from your CR, BUT they do not have to delete the items if they don't want to unless the DOLA of the item is 7 years old or older OR they cannot properly verify the debt.

Message Edited by JennLewis on 08-23-2007 10:19 AM

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I think there's some confusion here between the obligations of the CRAs and of the creditors.

Creditors cannot report inaccurate information, and have a duty to provide complete and accurate information to the CRAs (see Section 623(a), "Duty of Furnishers of Information to Provide Accurate Information").  If you had a bad debt, paid it, and then the creditor tells the CRA to delete the TL as if it never happened, there's at least an argument that the creditor is providing inaccurate information to the CRA.  Maybe this is why they are squeamish about PFDs. 

[George2037]

But in theory the PFD puts the actual debt in question, and would allow the CA to claim the TL is inaccurate and remove it from all three CRA's pending verification with OC.  The CA tells the OC payment is recieved then all Collection Processes stop.  To put the topping on the cake the PFD finishes off with an agreement to keep all communications concering said account confidential between the three parties involved (OC,CA, You).