TU Bankcard total?

[Anonymous]

Does TU's total of all bankcard balances NOT include AU accounts? Most of our accounts are mine with DH as AU. We each have few cards where we aren't AU's on the other. I can tell what makes up the bankcard total on mine. On his, it looks like it's ONLY his HD which I'm not on. 

If so, then the Discover he's primary on isn't going to affect my TU !!  That would be awesome! 

[NRB525]

I don't know the specific answer, but I had to build a list in Excel, tracking each of the reported balances on each card, in EQ and EX, then time those to align with the TU balance at any recent day. This sometimes involves excluding an account EQ and EX have reported, it may not be in the TU All Bankcards balance, it is also possible TU gets a card ahead of the others, so there is a bit of an art, a bit of squinting at the numbers so they make sense.

Using this method, if you research what those individual reported balances are on all the cards, then you should be able to reconstruct and roll forward the TU total. That will tell whether the AU are in or out of the TU total.

From this FICO 08 notice, it is likely the AU are not being included in the FICO score.

http://market360online.com/sqlimages/1261/121175.pdf

[Anonymous]

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@NRB525 wrote:

I don't know the specific answer, but I had to build a list in Excel, tracking each of the reported balances on each card, in EQ and EX, then time those to align with the TU balance at any recent day. This sometimes involves excluding an account EQ and EX have reported, it may not be in the TU All Bankcards balance, it is also possible TU gets a card ahead of the others, so there is a bit of an art, a bit of squinting at the numbers so they make sense.

Using this method, if you research what those individual reported balances are on all the cards, then you should be able to reconstruct and roll forward the TU total. That will tell whether the AU are in or out of the TU total.

From this FICO 08 notice, it is likely the AU are not being included in the FICO score.

http://market360online.com/sqlimages/1261/121175.pdf

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Thanks. Here's the blurb from there that makes me tend to agree: 

"FICO® 08 score also includes a modification designed to help protect lenders from Authorized User abuse. To limit lenders’ exposure to possible fraud by consumers that deceptively boost their score by paying to be added as an Authorized User on someone else’s aged and good credit account, Authorized User information will not be evaluated as a factor in the FICO® 08 models."

ETA: And yeah, I have the excel spreadsheet for mine that I update with any alerts. I don't analyze DH's quite as much. But it was a shock to me when it was the amount that is JUST his HD. Nothing else. 

[Anonymous]

Now that I'm thinking this through more, I was very excited that this meant that the high balance on DH's Discover wouldn't impact me. But now I realize that this also means that all my CLs don't affect him. So...we're going to have to work on that. Crud. With Barclay and Discover and our CU we each have our own log in. It was nice with AmEx, Chase, Cap One and Citi that it was all me. I guess that'll have to change. :roll eyes: 

Now I need to start yet another spreadsheet that tracks his numbers independently. (utilization, etc.) 

Also, I realized that the link provided was for FICO 08 in general, not just TU. So that means that even though the others report the balances and balance changes, they might not be affecting anything? Wow. 

[NRB525]

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@Anonymous wrote:

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@NRB525 wrote:

I don't know the specific answer, but I had to build a list in Excel, tracking each of the reported balances on each card, in EQ and EX, then time those to align with the TU balance at any recent day. This sometimes involves excluding an account EQ and EX have reported, it may not be in the TU All Bankcards balance, it is also possible TU gets a card ahead of the others, so there is a bit of an art, a bit of squinting at the numbers so they make sense.

Using this method, if you research what those individual reported balances are on all the cards, then you should be able to reconstruct and roll forward the TU total. That will tell whether the AU are in or out of the TU total.

From this FICO 08 notice, it is likely the AU are not being included in the FICO score.

http://market360online.com/sqlimages/1261/121175.pdf

---

Thanks. Here's the blurb from there that makes me tend to agree: 

"FICO® 08 score also includes a modification designed to help protect lenders from Authorized User abuse. To limit lenders’ exposure to possible fraud by consumers that deceptively boost their score by paying to be added as an Authorized User on someone else’s aged and good credit account, Authorized User information will not be evaluated as a factor in the FICO® 08 models."

ETA: And yeah, I have the excel spreadsheet for mine that I update with any alerts. I don't analyze DH's quite as much. But it was a shock to me when it was the amount that is JUST his HD. Nothing else. 

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On the third column to the right is the footnote, encouraging lenders to determine how they will interpret spousal AU situations, so that just muddies the question more.

[MarineVietVet]

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@NRB525 wrote:

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@Anonymous wrote:

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@NRB525 wrote:

I don't know the specific answer, but I had to build a list in Excel, tracking each of the reported balances on each card, in EQ and EX, then time those to align with the TU balance at any recent day. This sometimes involves excluding an account EQ and EX have reported, it may not be in the TU All Bankcards balance, it is also possible TU gets a card ahead of the others, so there is a bit of an art, a bit of squinting at the numbers so they make sense.

Using this method, if you research what those individual reported balances are on all the cards, then you should be able to reconstruct and roll forward the TU total. That will tell whether the AU are in or out of the TU total.

From this FICO 08 notice, it is likely the AU are not being included in the FICO score.

http://market360online.com/sqlimages/1261/121175.pdf

---

Thanks. Here's the blurb from there that makes me tend to agree: 

"FICO® 08 score also includes a modification designed to help protect lenders from Authorized User abuse. To limit lenders’ exposure to possible fraud by consumers that deceptively boost their score by paying to be added as an Authorized User on someone else’s aged and good credit account, Authorized User information will not be evaluated as a factor in the FICO® 08 models."

ETA: And yeah, I have the excel spreadsheet for mine that I update with any alerts. I don't analyze DH's quite as much. But it was a shock to me when it was the amount that is JUST his HD. Nothing else. 

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On the third column to the right is the footnote, encouraging lenders to determine how they will interpret spousal AU situations, so that just muddies the question more.

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This is from 2008.

The original decision not to include AU's in scoring was later reversed.

[Anonymous]

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@MarineVietVet wrote:

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@NRB525 wrote:

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@Anonymous wrote:

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@NRB525 wrote:

I don't know the specific answer, but I had to build a list in Excel, tracking each of the reported balances on each card, in EQ and EX, then time those to align with the TU balance at any recent day. This sometimes involves excluding an account EQ and EX have reported, it may not be in the TU All Bankcards balance, it is also possible TU gets a card ahead of the others, so there is a bit of an art, a bit of squinting at the numbers so they make sense.

Using this method, if you research what those individual reported balances are on all the cards, then you should be able to reconstruct and roll forward the TU total. That will tell whether the AU are in or out of the TU total.

From this FICO 08 notice, it is likely the AU are not being included in the FICO score.

http://market360online.com/sqlimages/1261/121175.pdf

---

Thanks. Here's the blurb from there that makes me tend to agree: 

"FICO® 08 score also includes a modification designed to help protect lenders from Authorized User abuse. To limit lenders’ exposure to possible fraud by consumers that deceptively boost their score by paying to be added as an Authorized User on someone else’s aged and good credit account, Authorized User information will not be evaluated as a factor in the FICO® 08 models."

ETA: And yeah, I have the excel spreadsheet for mine that I update with any alerts. I don't analyze DH's quite as much. But it was a shock to me when it was the amount that is JUST his HD. Nothing else. 

---

On the third column to the right is the footnote, encouraging lenders to determine how they will interpret spousal AU situations, so that just muddies the question more.

---

This is from 2008.

The original decision not to include AU's in scoring was later reversed.

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Thanks MVV. 

Do you know an answer to my original question?  Or let me rephrase: Given that TU is showing only DH's card where he's solo (and now that I look back it had previously only been reporting the solo and our joint CU card which is now at $0) do you think that means that it's only calculating utilization based on that bankcard total? Or that maybe it's only showing that one card, but is calculating on all including where he's an AU? 

[MarineVietVet]

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@Anonymous wrote:

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@MarineVietVet wrote:

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@NRB525 wrote:

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@Anonymous wrote:

---

@NRB525 wrote:

I don't know the specific answer, but I had to build a list in Excel, tracking each of the reported balances on each card, in EQ and EX, then time those to align with the TU balance at any recent day. This sometimes involves excluding an account EQ and EX have reported, it may not be in the TU All Bankcards balance, it is also possible TU gets a card ahead of the others, so there is a bit of an art, a bit of squinting at the numbers so they make sense.

Using this method, if you research what those individual reported balances are on all the cards, then you should be able to reconstruct and roll forward the TU total. That will tell whether the AU are in or out of the TU total.

From this FICO 08 notice, it is likely the AU are not being included in the FICO score.

http://market360online.com/sqlimages/1261/121175.pdf

---

Thanks. Here's the blurb from there that makes me tend to agree: 

"FICO® 08 score also includes a modification designed to help protect lenders from Authorized User abuse. To limit lenders’ exposure to possible fraud by consumers that deceptively boost their score by paying to be added as an Authorized User on someone else’s aged and good credit account, Authorized User information will not be evaluated as a factor in the FICO® 08 models."

ETA: And yeah, I have the excel spreadsheet for mine that I update with any alerts. I don't analyze DH's quite as much. But it was a shock to me when it was the amount that is JUST his HD. Nothing else. 

---

On the third column to the right is the footnote, encouraging lenders to determine how they will interpret spousal AU situations, so that just muddies the question more.

---

This is from 2008.

The original decision not to include AU's in scoring was later reversed.

---

Thanks MVV. 

Do you know an answer to my original question?  Or let me rephrase: Given that TU is showing only DH's card where he's solo (and now that I look back it had previously only been reporting the solo and our joint CU card which is now at $0) do you think that means that it's only calculating utilization based on that bankcard total? Or that maybe it's only showing that one card, but is calculating on all including where he's an AU? 

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What do your reports say? Are you are listed as an AU on any of his cards? And vice versa?

Even though FICO still looks at AU's that doesn't mean any particular issuer will do so.

[Anonymous]

Whatodyaknow? I already made a thread like the one I was about to make. I know this is super old, but I'm trying to make a decision about what to do with some balances that will be hanging out when some 0%'s end and in general trying (once again) to maximize scores. 

I'd forgotten that AU accounts don't calculate in what TU puts up as a Bankcard total. I just re-discovered this as I'm trying to reconstruct what that number means for me right now. I still don't know if that means that TU doesn't hold AU balances against you in scoring and/or if they don't calculate AU CLs in when calculating overall utility. Meaning do high util AU accounts hurt and low util AU accounts help or not? And would that answer be the same for the other CRA's? 

Besides the AU issue, the other thing that got me looking into the bankcard total is I was trying to figure out if my PRG counts in there or not. (I can't tell because I can't seem to deconstruct the total right now.) I understood that a balance carried on a charge card like a PRG doesn't affect util, and I always equated that to it doesn't affect score. I'm questioning that assumption. 

I've gone several months NOT trying to maximize my scores and using my grace periods, but now there's a chance we may again refi so I'm trying to do what's best to maximize for now. 

[takeshi74]

Where is the bankcard total that you're referencing coming from?  myFICO?  A TU report?  Something else?

You seem to be confalting 3 different things as "TU".  First, there's the CRA who holds and maintains your report.  Second, there's the scoring model which generates a score based on the data in the report.  Third, there's the creditor who has its own underwriting criteria for the product you're considering.  The score is just one consideration for the creditor.  Don't conflate these 3 things.  I would guess that a creditor that does not consider TL's where one is an AU would use a scoring model that does not consider such TL's -- and vice-versa.  However, it's really difficult to confirm such things.

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@Anonymous wrote:

I've gone several months NOT trying to maximize my scores and using my grace periods, but now there's a chance we may again refi so I'm trying to do what's best to maximize for now. 

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What are you refinancing?  Which specific scoring model will be used?  That's what you want to look into.  How does the model weight report data -- if that information is available?  You'll also want to see if there's any known info on major factors for the specific creditor/product.

Is this going to be a joint refinance?  If so, the AU thing is moot since the account will at least be considered for the person who holds the account.  Even if there is no scoring impact your creditor may consider debt levels in which case you'll probably want debt levels to be generally lower than higher.

Don't assume that all scoring models are equivalent.  There's a good chance that a refinance probably won't use the scores in your signatures which are probably FICO 8's.  Make sure you're always considering the specific model when referencing scores.

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@Anonymous wrote:

I understood that a balance carried on a charge card like a PRG doesn't affect util, and I always equated that to it doesn't affect score. I'm questioning that assumption. 

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Depends on the scoring model.  Charge cards do not factor into revolving utilization for newer FICO models but they do factor in for older models.

Addtiionally, carring on a charge card is generally a bad idea even if pay over time is available to the individual.