What will be considered a thick file?

[TheGardner]

And you likely have the above criteria (long AAoA, long history and 30+ accounts). 

My comment was indeed aggressive credit seekers who say it's to build a thicker file. 

Thick files are usually and should be built over time to reap all the positive benefits (Large SL and low AAoA damage as in your experiance). Someone trashing their report today with 30+ new trade lines with a short history, bringing it down to months, won't really get the benefit for another 4+ years. Most of those accounts would be low limit store cards as majors wouldn't generally approve a "young" (AAoA) profile with such aggressive apping. Even in 4 years having 30 store cards isn't going to look awesome to an underwriter. 

As the question was asked I just want newer posters to know there's more than 1 way to build a profile. Thick files will happen through normal process of life. Student loans. Buying a car, maybe 2. House, normal cards, freq used retailers if there's a perk that beats other cards etc. Doesn't have to be race to the bottom to get to the top.

Just my .02c

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@FinStar wrote:

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@TheGardner wrote:

I'm not sure there is a cut and dry answer as there isn't really a valid ranking. It's all speculation..

I personally view a thick file as one with a long credit history (10-20  yrs min). Several accounts (30+). With a decent history (5Yrs min AAoA). These will bring the higher limit cards mentioned above. 

The perks of a "thick" file is in the above example (30 accounts) a new trade line will drop AAoA by 2 months not years that a smaller file would be hit with. 

Some use the term as a crutch to app more to "build a thick file" but at what expense? Your AAoA will be worthless for years making your profile less desirable and higher risk.. You will get toy limits and scores will be suppressed because history is a large factor.  So many inq and such.. Let's just call it as it is, app addiction. Nothing wrong with that if you don't mind toy limits and high APRs. 

Over time you will get a thick file app of a few cards a year and let your profile age. Never let it drop below 2 years, that's FICO min. For scoring (lowest scoring tier under 2 years).  Best bet is get it over 5..

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The bolded part of your assumption has not been my experience (maybe for others who have aggressively seeked credit in a shorter span of time).  In fact, I get similar or larger CL results with most newer apps and low APRs as well.  For instance, my most recent approval was BBVA $30K and 9.24% APR.

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[FinStar]

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@TheGardner wrote:

And you likely have the above criteria (long AAoA, long history and 30+ accounts). 

My comment was indeed aggressive credit seekers who say it's to build a thicker file. 

Thick files are usually and should be built over time to reap all the positive benefits (Large SL and low AAoA damage as in your experiance). Someone trashing their report today with 30+ new trade lines with a short history, bringing it down to months, won't really get the benefit for another 4+ years. Most of those accounts would be low limit store cards as majors wouldn't generally approve a "young" (AAoA) profile with such aggressive apping. Even in 4 years having 30 store cards isn't going to look awesome to an underwriter. 

As the question was asked I just want newer posters to know there's more than 1 way to build a profile. Thick files will happen through normal process of life. Student loans. Buying a car, maybe 2. House, normal cards, freq used retailers if there's a perk that beats other cards etc. Doesn't have to be race to the bottom to get to the top.

Just my .02c

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@FinStar wrote:

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@TheGardner wrote:

I'm not sure there is a cut and dry answer as there isn't really a valid ranking. It's all speculation..

I personally view a thick file as one with a long credit history (10-20  yrs min). Several accounts (30+). With a decent history (5Yrs min AAoA). These will bring the higher limit cards mentioned above. 

The perks of a "thick" file is in the above example (30 accounts) a new trade line will drop AAoA by 2 months not years that a smaller file would be hit with. 

Some use the term as a crutch to app more to "build a thick file" but at what expense? Your AAoA will be worthless for years making your profile less desirable and higher risk.. You will get toy limits and scores will be suppressed because history is a large factor.  So many inq and such.. Let's just call it as it is, app addiction. Nothing wrong with that if you don't mind toy limits and high APRs. 

Over time you will get a thick file app of a few cards a year and let your profile age. Never let it drop below 2 years, that's FICO min. For scoring (lowest scoring tier under 2 years).  Best bet is get it over 5..

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The bolded part of your assumption has not been my experience (maybe for others who have aggressively seeked credit in a shorter span of time).  In fact, I get similar or larger CL results with most newer apps and low APRs as well.  For instance, my most recent approval was BBVA $30K and 9.24% APR.

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Thanks for clarifying TheGardner.  I would definitely agree with your statements.  IME, everything has been gradual hence the longer AAoA and mix of accounts.

[JSS3]

I think one's file is "thick enough" when you DON'T see "Length of time accounts have been established" as a negative factor impacting your score.

As far as the appaholics and our excuses 0f aggressively seeking credit to build thick files...I'm admittedly lost when it comes to figuring out the whole AAoA thing. I tried to follow a diagram some time back to calulate. It just didn't compute. My EQ lists my oldest account at 13 yrs 8months and my AAoA 1yr 12 months. This will change for me when my student loan drops off in 2017. My credit will then go as far back as 2013(as my old Cap 1 account is no longer on my reports). 

So, to refresh, I currently have 1yrs 12 months. In Nov of this year, I plan to acquire 10 cards. This will obviously bring my AAoA way down. BUT I plan to go out with a bang! Once I have all the cards I've wanted, I can sit back and not apply for years. This WILL bring up my AAoA. So I do think we take the intial hit upfront then get it back on the "back end"

MY thinking is, to take the hit now and then not apply. Allow your AAoA to recover and grow. Then it will be back up to a few years(since you haven't app'd) due to no longer needing anymore cards. 

If we chose to get one or two cards a year, we'd have keep taking AAoA hits and still need cards. I'd rather take one big hit and then let it build up from there...is my (probably erroneous) thinking.

As far as appaholics only getting toy limits and bad APRs, for me, I'm getting the limits and APRs that I'm happy with. On average, I get approved for 2-3,000. My highest approval to date has been 4,500. My cards grow well with sp increases. My highest line is with Discover @ 14,100 Followed by Citi @ 11,000. Lowest is my DSW Visa @1,000. That will be going up shortly! I can almost guarantee my next set of cards will be approved at 5,000 minimum! People like me can have a 15-20,000 card with the help of Amex's 3X. These are not toys. I've very proud of what's in my aresnal. 

On topic again: A thick file, in my definition, is not a number or age. It's the moment you're able to get the limits and rates you want. I'm already there, personally.

[jamesdwi]

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@TheGardner wrote:

And you likely have the above criteria (long AAoA, long history and 30+ accounts). 

My comment was indeed aggressive credit seekers who say it's to build a thicker file. 

Thick files are usually and should be built over time to reap all the positive benefits (Large SL and low AAoA damage as in your experiance). Someone trashing their report today with 30+ new trade lines with a short history, bringing it down to months, won't really get the benefit for another 4+ years. Most of those accounts would be low limit store cards as majors wouldn't generally approve a "young" (AAoA) profile with such aggressive apping. Even in 4 years having 30 store cards isn't going to look awesome to an underwriter. 

 If your short history is an AAoA of less than a year, the new tradelines won't do much to effect it. sure it may reset your AAoA, 3 to 6 months, but at the end of the time it will be stronger when you add more cards. Being new to credit has its benefits, you can take the small hits early on, and pay the price and come out stronger, when you AAoA is less than a year you can pad your report with store cards, that will grow slowly over time. But if your AAoA is 3+ years and you have 3 cards, your AAoA and score will take a major hit adding the store cards.  The lesson I learned is that over time you have to learn to App for less and less cards. These days, 1 or 2 cards every 6 months is enough, in a year or two it will be 1 card every 6 months or a year, because I don't like the effect on my score. Its nice to have a 3yr. 3 months AAoA, and 700+ scores across the board. 

[longtimelurker]

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@TheGardner wrote:

And you likely have the above criteria (long AAoA, long history and 30+ accounts). 

My comment was indeed aggressive credit seekers who say it's to build a thicker file. 

Thick files are usually and should be built over time to reap all the positive benefits (Large SL and low AAoA damage as in your experiance). Someone trashing their report today with 30+ new trade lines with a short history, bringing it down to months, won't really get the benefit for another 4+ years. Most of those accounts would be low limit store cards as majors wouldn't generally approve a "young" (AAoA) profile with such aggressive apping. Even in 4 years having 30 store cards isn't going to look awesome to an underwriter. 

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Right, when I read your original comment it brought to mind those proposing lots and lots of apps early on the "bullet proof AAoA"   As you say, lots of potential consequences in the shorter term.

[RobertEG]

Literature and texts on scorecard development discuss the segmentation of scorecards based on various factors for each major scoring category, such as payment history, mix/types of credt, length of credit, ultilization, etc., and varying the scoring algorithm based on comparison with similar consumers within a category.

That categorization is commony referred to as "buckeing" on this site.

Payment history traditionally has major categories of "clean" or "dirty," with dirty being the presence of major derogs, and in some cases, multiple minor derogs, and clean being the absence of dirty derogs.  A consumer, for example, who rids him or herself of their last collection will see more score improvement than one who still has remainng major derogs.

Categorization as "thin" normally has a low threshold, and in most literature, is around 3-5 tradelines.  As discussed on prior posts, "thicK" usually means not thin.

One moving from thin to non-thin files will move into a different comparison algorithm, or bucket.

The specific criteria used by Fair Isaaac remain part of their trade secret protection of their algorithms, but I believe it is safe to assume it is fairly consistent with other literature on scorecard development,  and thus thin is most likely in the 3-5 tradeline ballpark.

[takeshi74]

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@DigitalArk wrote:
What will be considered a thick file?

... and what are the advantages of having a thick file?

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It's a relative term.  There isn't a hard line that defines thick based on X Payment History, Y Accounts, Z AAoA, etc.  In general the more of those, the thicker the file.  On top of that, each creditor can vary in where they may draw the line on a thin file and files that are too thin for them to extend any credit.

A thick file in good standing is seen as less of a risk as the consumer has established his/her credit.  That helps with approvals, limits, APR's, CLI's and everything else that is based on credit.  A thick can file can generally handle inquiries better than a thin file.  A person with a thick file and X inquiries might not see inquiries listed as a reason for denial or for not getting the best terms whereas a person with a thin/poor file could easily see X inquiries as a reason for denial.  The obsession with hard pulls here is probably because there are so many that are building/rebuilding and inquiries are a relatively more significant factor for them.  AAoA is also less likely to take as big of a hit with a thicker file since one would have more and aged accounts.

[jamie123]

I've been rebuilding my credit for just about 3 years now. I went years without using or having any credit at all. When I first joined MyFICO 3 years ago they couldn't generate a score for lack of data.

I became a regular on these forums and really learned a lot from all the great people here. You need to make smart and reasoned credit moves to build a thick file quickly.

My oldest secured Cap1 (CL $1300) card turns 3 years old at the end of this month.

I received a CLI from $3500 to $6000 CC at 2 years from Walmart/Discover.

My BoA rewards card upped my CL to $5000 a few months later.

At 2.5 years I received a Cap1 Quicksilver with a 10K CL.

I have 7 open credit cards and 1 closed credit card from when Walmart upgraded me to the Walmart/Discover after I had the Walmart card for 1 year.

I have 2 shared secured $500 loans that were opened last July.

My AAoA is currently at 1 year 7 months.

I have 1 state tax lien on each of my reports that is probably holding my scores down by at least 50 points.

You can build a good credit file in about 2 to 2.5 years if you try.

My definition of the bare minimum for a credit file to be considered thick is:

4 credit cards

1 installment loan

The rest is gravy.