Why do we have to PAY for FICO Scores??

[AtlantaBelle]

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@Pants wrote:

The poster specifically mentioned about obtaining a free FICO score for the purpose of rebuilding credit. Knowing your FICO score is not needed to rebuild credit. ONLY if you plan to apply for a loan.

At which case.. If you can't afford the $12.76 for a FICO Score what makes you think you can afford a loan payment?

FICO scores are a service. Supply and Demand sets the price. The reason obtaining your FICO score costs so much is because people are willing to pay that price.

FICO scores are not like a Utility like a phone company. These days you NEED a phone. You CAN live without a FICO score..

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Except the parts where you need to know where you stand on a regular basis in order to qualify for renting a house, getting a car loan, being qualified for better credit cards to *build* better cards. I don't know where you are, but in Atlanta, you pretty much need all three to survive. We have a terrible transit system so a car becomes a necessity, especially if you have specialized labor skills. You need a place to stay in order to get the sleep necessary to do the job and *a lot* of people are saying you must have at least good credit. (Which for the record is a joke with the city's current economy.) And credit cards are what helps build up your credit so you can get the house and job. Just as there are jobs in the government, at least locally, that require looking at your credit if you even remotely deal with money.

It's not cut and dry. I think the fees should be lower. If they weren't important, why would you be monitoring them so closely? Clearly they're very necessary. It's not like cable television or high-speed internet, where it's a choice. A credit score and FICO score are more like your GPA: everything depends on the qualifiers. Even when you graduate, if you've got a 4.0 in your field, you'll probably find a job a lot faster than the 2.0 student. One shows commitment; the other shows someone sliding by.

Message Edited by AtlantaBelle on 08-15-2008 09:10 AM

[Pants]

I disagree. You need to know what is on your credit report. BUT YOU DO NOT NEED TO KNOW YOUR FICO SCORE TO SURVIVE.

FICO scores are common sense.. Bad credit report = low score.. Good credit report = Good Score.

Your FICO score is based on your credit report. If you have a bad credit score you are referrred back to your credit report.  At which you can get one free report from each bureau per year if necessary.  You can't dispute a credit score, you can only dispute what is on your credit report.

NOT MANY PEOPLE watch fico scores closely. Maybe about 1 in 50 people check it once a year. Probably 1 in 300 check it once every 6 months.

True.. A FICO score is like a GPA.. But you have to look at the report card to get the entire picture. A GPA is common sense too. If you do poorly on your report card.. You are going to have a poor GPA. Therefore GPA is not really necessary. Fixing your report card is.

In short.. NO it is not important to know your credit score. There are certain circumstances that will make you want to watch your score. When I refinanced the house I had Scorewatch and I waited until I reached prime area to apply. It served its purpose and I dropped it when I didn't need it.

I can't see how renting an apartment or a house you would need to look at your credit score or applying for a job. MOST of it is common sense. If you have a bankruptcy, foreclosure, collections most people know what to expect.

3 in 1 credit scores are not expensive. If you can't afford it.. Don't apply for the mortgage, loan, or the apartment.. Chances are you won't be able to afford that.

Message Edited by Pants on 08-15-2008 10:36 AM

[AtlantaBelle]

Pants

I'm sorry...are you arguing with me on my experiences? I don't think that's actually possible as you weren't there. You don't know what is going on unless you own everything ever. Simply put: your experiences will not be mine. And it is important, judging by the ads and such. Whether you think it's right or not, don't presume to know my situation. At all.

A FICO score IS important. If you want to get any kind of loan, it can save or kill your chances. Look at the fact you refinanced your home.

It must be nice living in a world where everything works out perfectly and one never, ever has to pinch pennies for an assortment of reasons. If I'm trying to reach max potential, then it's imperative that I be aware of all things. For me.

For the record, do you have access to my bank records? You might be surprised how a stupid mistake at 19 can still impact you years later, whether I'm rich, poor, or middle-class. Doesn't mean that I'm not working on fixing everything that I can with my available resources. It also doesn't mean I want to pour everything I have into watching something that closely for a small item.

I suggest you drop if if you can't stop yelling at me.

[athensguy]

Part of the reason it would be difficult to legislate the availability of credit scores is that there is no standard score. You can legislate the information release because that doesn't require judgment on the part of the issuer. I might be going out on limb here, but I'm fairly sure that a legislation regarding credit, like the FACT Act of 2003, is not going to mention a brand name of credit score. If there was a government issue score, then they could legislate the release of that, but since FICO/Vantage/Plus are proprietary software results, they won't legislate the release of those scores.

If they did legislate free credit scores from all CRAs, it most likely would not have a brand name attached, and you would end up with a Plus Score from one vendor, a Transrisk score from another, and maybe a FICO from EQ. Innovis doesn't currently release scores. Would you force them to commission a scoring system?

[haulingthescoreup]

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@AtlantaBelle wrote:

It's not cut and dry. I think the fees should be lower. If they weren't important, why would you be monitoring them so closely?

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Actually, I do it because I'm a hopeless geek, and I'm trying to figure out the formula. It's my new hobby, and my means of staying out of trouble elsewhere.

Not to make light of what you are saying, because if you have a goal in mind that requires a specific score, you do need to have some idea of what's going on.

No one could afford to pull scores as often as they like. As it is, I'm aghast at how often I pull (and yes, I do pay for them, although I scramble up every discount code I can find.)

The way around this is to read the forums all you can, especially this one and Understanding FICO Scoring, and learn what triggers score changes, in either direction. If you can afford a monthly monitoring product like TrueCredit, you can update reports every day, and eventually you will have a pretty good idea when there has been enough of a change on the reports to create a significantly changed score, and decide whether or not to pull.

Interesting that you mentioned bad public transit, presumably in Atlanta. At first look, the only options appear to be suffering with MARTA, or paying for a car, gas, and insurance to spend half your life in gridlock hell. The challenge is the same as with trying to keep track of your credit improvement --looking beyond these two options to see what else there might be.

[Anonymous]

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score_building wrote:

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imducky wrote:

sorry, i just don't agree with you. unless of course you routinely work for free and don't expect any compensation for your time and talents.

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I also agree and disagree.  which 'talents' exactly are you referring to- the fair isaac formula and the roster of duties of each employee, and how are you quantifying their value? 

the talent (ie. thought, research, marketing, etc..) and overhead it took the owner  to produce the prduct. The value of anything is clearly set by what someone is willing to pay for it. if you don't think it's a reasonable price don't buy it, if the market foces agree then the price will go down. given the opposite, well i really don't need to procede do i?

how much profit is it reasonable to be compensated for said time and talent w/ respect to a financial system that one or someone like one had nothing to do with setting up? 

as much as the market bears. i suppose in your profession the salary varies, do you attempt to be on the lower or upper tier?

and whcih you gotta pay and pay dearly to play...

play? well if it's play, then pay or find a new game. if you pay your bills, meet your obligations, and don't cheat people and get judgments, then your fico score should be healthy enough to obtain the loans and products you seek at competeive rates.

i wonder if you would disagree if you were a paragon of will and morality who still hadn't found a way out of cyclical urban or rural poverty

i would agrue that i am a paragon of will and morality (by your stanadrd at least), as i work for a living. anyone can find any number of programs to find there way out of so called "cyclical urban or rural poverty", but it starts with personal responsability and sheding of the "i'm owed that" mentality.

or a way into a financial system set up by the monied classes for their benefit.

be thankful there are monied classes, because they pay the overwhelming majority of the taxes that fund many programs that seek to end the "cylical or rural poverty" here and abroad.

i really fail to see how the monied classes are manipulating the financial system, please elaborate. better yet contact the fbi or other appropriate law enforcement, regulatory agencies.

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imducky wrote:

fyi, you can improve your credit w/o knowing your fico score, and you can obtain 1 report a year for free from each of the big 3 at annualcredit report dot com

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true and valid point but only the poor are forced into that guessing game that you apparently deem to be fair.  It isn't a mistake that a poor person still may not be able to afford to buy their score. how literal:  the poor don't know the score (ie.  can't play on the same level playing ground as the monied classes).

the poor aren't forced to do anything in this country. they have the same access to the score as anyone else, why is that not fair enough?

why do you keep talking about monied classes? that's the type of us and them mentality that will hold an individual back. if you think you can't comete, you won't, so you will never strive to better yourself or your situation.

your credit score isn't like a princeton review class for a grad school exam.  It's not elective:  everyone should have equal access regardless of income,

again, status has nothing to do with access to the information. you argument about availabilty just doesn't hold up. yes payment is required to obtain a fico score, but why is that a bad thing?

sorry i think you've somewhat oversimplified the plight of the poor and how it degrades their possibility for financial advancement in the current system.

plight of the poor? have you seen the standard of living for the "poor" in this country? in almost any country in the world our "poor" would be middle to upper middle class.

Message Edited by score_building on 08-15-2008 03:10 AM

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sorry had to edit because i missed the last portion.

Message Edited by imducky on 08-15-2008 05:44 PM

[Anonymous]

Just want to throw my thoughts in.....

You are entitled to a free report yearly, as already mentioned.

If you are:

unemployed and are seeking employment in the next 60 days

on public welfare

received adverse action in the last 60 days based on your CR

You are entitled to a free report.

Some states have passed laws allowing you a free report in addition to the one under FACTA mentioned above. Those states and other states have also passed allows allowing for discounted reports to be purchased.

Someone mentioned that each time they dispute something and it comes back verified but still inaccurate that they have to purchase a new report to dispute again. No, you get a free report when your dispute is completed. It will show the changes. No reason to purchase a new report to dispute the item again.

Laws were passed giving free annual access to credit reports because that is how ID theft is discovered many of the times. It had nothing to do with "equal access for all" or people's income. It had to do with the rising incident of ID theft and helping us combat it before it gets too severe.

FICO scores are not needed, they are wanted. Wanted by lenders to assess risk, wanted by consumers so they know how they are ranked and how potential viewers will likely assess them.

FICO scores will not help anyone become aware of signs of ID theft.

During repair mode, there is only 1 reason to pull your FICO scores........curiousity.

During rebuild mode, you would only need to know it, if you don't want to risk a inquiry for a denial.

Even if you are going to apply for a mortgage, etc you do not have to know your score.

If you have a clean report, you have a shot, regardless of your score, not everything is automated or has to be automated.

How many of our parent's purchased a house without knowing what a credit score was?

Message Edited by sidewinder on 08-15-2008 03:00 PM

[Anonymous]

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@AtlantaBelle wrote:

I'm sorry...are you arguing with me on my experiences? I don't think that's actually possible as you weren't there. You don't know what is going on unless you own everything ever. Simply put: your experiences will not be mine.

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I don't think anyone's disagreeing with your experience. Was your experience that your credit reports were in good shape but your scores were low? I would have thought that would be unlikely but I suppose not impossible..

I'm not saying the scores aren't important. But you can get 3 free reports every year (or one free report every four months) to keep tabs on your credit. I bought a car, obtained two credit cards, rented my first apartment, and got my first "real" job, without having ever looked at my credit report or score. I didn't even know what they were until I went to buy my second car and wanted a loan. I wouldn't recommend that, if only for the reason that identity theft seems to be a big concern these days and that would be one way to find out about such activity.

I wish they were cheaper also. No good reason, except I want them to be.

[score_building]

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imducky wrote:

i would agrue that i am a paragon of will and morality (by your stanadrd at least), as i work for a living. anyone can find any number of programs to find there way out of so called "cyclical urban or rural poverty", but it starts with personal responsability and sheding of the "i'm owed that" mentality.

who would you be arguing w/? not me, i don't know you.  and you have zero idea what my standard is (which is also irrelevant to the discussion).

plight of the poor? have you seen the standard of living for the "poor" in this country? in almost any country in the world our "poor" would be mid

 

patently false.  you clearly have not been exposed to the living condition of the poorest in our nation.  even more woeful in some respects is their suffering considering we live in a country that has the resources for every single citizen to have a decent standard of living.  Judging from the ignorant, smug moralisms you feel entitled to, having not been in their position you clearly aren't willing or able to acknowledge certain truths. so there is really no point.  plus i'm not big on thread jacking.  The fact that you so glibly marginalize the suffering of the poorest of our nation, yes- right here in the US and look at their condition as choices speaks volumes.  So does the idea that despite this you feel you are in a position to compare suffering (as if it were an olympic competition) of the poorest here vs. other countries. whew, there's really no words.

 i really fail to see how the monied classes are manipulating the financial system, please elaborate. better yet contact the fbi or other appropriate law enforcement, regulatory agencies.

i didn't say they are manipulating it  -they created it, sorry you feel the need to twist my words at every turn.  you apparently aren't just a paragon of will and morality- you're a barrel of laughs to boot!  maybe you should contact your nearest local comedy club and sign up.

Message Edited by score_building on 08-15-2008 03:54 PM

[Anonymous]

If ones goals are to repair credit and to work on establishing positive credit history one needs three things

The will to actually do it

A copy of your credit report

Time

NONE OF THESE COST MONEY

On top of that, this forum itself is a huge resource that is free.

If someone can not afford to pull their credit every 6 months, they are not in any position that the score is likely to matter.  Even if low income could get a waiver on the charge, the industry would be doing it to no end as these people are unlikely to be in the process of buying any major purchases.  In the end, work on the report to get your score credit cleaned up and the score will follow.  Concentrate energy on getting the past cleaned up and building some assets.  it is a much more rewarding use of time than worrying about the actual score when rebuilding.  If you are not rebuilding credit and have solid credit history then this is less of an issue period.  Only if you are purchasing a major purchase is a score truly helpful as they fluctuate too much for any one snapshot give that much info (hence the reason lenders look at the report and the score, not just pull a report and say OK, you are approved)

This is not some socialist agenda class issue.  PERIOD.  Those who need to see their credit report can.  thsoe who WANT to see their score will haev to pay.  So be it.