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Affects of House Flipping on Credit

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Anonymous
Not applicable

Re: Affects of House Flipping on Credit

Jacque383,
Thanks so much for all of your help.  You seem pretty experienced in this area.  I was wondering if you had any sort of spreadsheets, line item budget worksheets or any thing(s) to that affect that you use to analyze a project and to run numbers and if so if you'd be willing to share this information? 
Also do you have any recommendations for the best way of finding properties?
Thanks so much!
Message 11 of 36
Jacque383
Regular Contributor

Re: Affects of House Flipping on Credit

Hi,

Yes, I do have spreadsheets…I have simple ones all the way up to some pretty sophisticated software where I simply plug in my numbers and it will tell me what I need to buy the property for….If you send me your email I will email them to you.

 

As for getting started finding properties…There are so many ways. There is an abundance of deals out there. I  think that many new investors (who watch too much late-night TV) are under the impression that if they decide to become investors, the “investor fairy” will drop deals out of the sky.

 

That's not true, if you’re going to do this you’re going to have to work just like the rest of the world. The difference is that we are not stuck in a nine-to-five rut and bound by the “bosses” rules. My job is fun, profitable, I make as much as I am willing to work for, and I get to help people along the way.
 
So, not knowing what type of thing you’re focusing on I’ll tell you what I did to get started. And trust me it didn’t happen overnight…But I will tell you this much. When I began investing, I used to teach at a major University, I made as much in 3 months investing as I did an entire year teaching. Guess what I do fulltime now! It works, but you’re going to have to work really hard and not give up.
 
Finding real estate deals is an art that takes time to master. Like any business, customers are what drive it. Your primary customer is the seller who is motivated to sell below market value. Finding motivated sellers requires advertising, marketing, salesmanship, and, like any business, keeping your nose to the ground.
 
Nothing happens and nothing matters in real estate until you find a deal. You cannot put together a deal without a motivated seller, and you can only convince a motivated seller to do something creative or at a discounted price. A motivated seller is one with a very good and pressing reason to sell below market.
 
Find motivated sellers who are willing to sell their properties at a discounted price or "soft" terms. Some of these issues include:
 
Divorce
 
Landlording headaches
 
Lack of Concern
 
Inexperience with real estate repairs
 
Time constraints
 
Death of a loved one.
 
Job Transfer
Impending foreclosure or  other financial problems
 
 
This is just to name a few. This information is all readily available at your courthouse. It’s all under public disclosures, you just have to go and look.
 
Another thing is to do what successful real estate agents do…They use a technique called "farming" to increase their business activity. They pick a neighborhood or two and focus their marketing efforts within that area. You should try the same technique. Start with a neighborhood that is relatively convenient for you.

 

1. Drive the area: Spend a few weekends driving around the area. The goal for you at first is to learn about the area, the style of houses, and the average prices. Over time, you may expand your farm area, but stick with areas that contain the type of homes you plan to purchase.

 

It is not necessary to begin your investment career by learning every square mile of a large metropolitan area; it is important to learn the value of "typical" homes in your target areas. This knowledge will enable you to make quick decisions about whether a particular prospect is a bargain.

 

2. Attend open houses: Visit open houses and "for sale by owner" (FSBO) properties on weekends. Speak directly with owners and their agents. Pass out your business cards. Make friends. Word of mouth and referrals are a big part of any business.

 

Part of the process of finding a deal is to know how to recognize one. Take a good look at the property and its physical features. After viewing a couple of dozen open houses in the neighborhood, you will get to know the value of the properties and the different styles of houses. When someone calls you about a house in that area, you will know the value by its description.

 

3. Look for ugly and vacant properties: While you are driving around neighborhoods, look for vacant, ugly houses. How can you tell if a house is vacant? Look in the window! Of course, this practice may get you shot, bitten by a dog, or arrested. The very first deal I ever made was a vacant property with an out of state owner. We did the deal, but had no keys. I go over there with my ladder, climb in through a window and when I come out I’m met with 3 cops all pointing guns at me. That was a couple of years ago, I thought it would never happen again. It did. This year I evicted a tenant, who locked the doors. Again, with my trusty ladder climbed in and when I came out the Sheriff (who had moved in next door a few months prior) was standing there waiting for me to come out. Make sure you have ID and sales paperwork with you when breaking into vacant houses! Anyway, first thing to look look for are the obvious signs of vacancy: overgrown grass, no window shades, boarded windows, newspapers, garbage, mail piled up, etc.

 

If you are not certain whether the property is vacant, knock on the door. If the owner answers, be polite, respectful and ask if he is interested in selling. In many cases, it may be a rental property, so ask the occupants for the name and telephone number of the owner.

 

If the property is vacant, ask the neighbors if they know the owner. Most neighbors are helpful, as they know "rundown, vacant" houses hurt their own property values. In addition, ask the mailman; they know all of the empty houses on the block. Leave a business card and write down the address of the ugly or vacant properties. When you get home, look up the name and address of the owner.

 

Some cities, towns, and counties will "tag" a house with code violations. This is often a sign of a neglected or vacant property. Ask your city if you can obtain a list of such properties or find where this information is publicly recorded.

 

Speaking of knocking on doors. First and foremost, I’m to tell you that knocking on doors is still the best way to find deals because other investors hate to do it. The biggest problem is that investors don’t know what to say.

 

It's simple, just tell the homeowners that you were at the courthouse doing some research and noticed that they have a pending problem with their property or it was vacant, whatever the case may be, and you’d like to help. NEVER mention the “F” word--foreclosure. Ask them if they took care of it.

 

Typically they say, “yes.”  Ask what they did (filed an answer, sold it, brought the back payments current, what?). You can tell by the blank look on their faces that they haven't taken care of anything. Offer your assistance and move forward with your deal.

 

Postcards are another favorite method. You can mail them to folks in foreclosure, people in probate; going through a divorce; in bankruptcy; and landlords who just walked out of eviction court. This information is public knowledge, and the typical investor doesn't tap into it. NEVER be typical.

 

For $10 I can buy a CD from the various county assessor’s offices of all the property owners in the county. I can then separate it into what category of homes I’m looking for, how long they’ve been there, but most especially out of state owners or those who are behind on taxes, etc and mail out information. Bulk mail is cheap. Do I get responses, oh yeah.

 

But most importantly run ads. Especially those Thrifty Nickel’s all over the place. It’s cheap to sign up for a corporate discount. I get charged $10 for any length ad and the requirement is one ad a week….$40 bucks a month. I’ll give you a little known tip: Place your ads under “money to lend.” Many times the homeowners first choice is to save their house, not sell it. Once you have them on the phone you can negotiate your way into the deal.

 

You will make as much money as you are willing to work for. The sky is truly the limit. The bottom line is this: There are thousands of deals out there. If you don’t make the effort to find them, other investors will.



Message Edited by Jacque383 on 07-25-2007 08:45 PM

Message Edited by Jacque383 on 07-25-2007 08:46 PM
Message 12 of 36
Anonymous
Not applicable

Re: Affects of House Flipping on Credit

Jacque383:
You seem to be a marvelous source in this subject. I have done 2 projects and had one really successful one. But it takes me forever to decide what to buy and how much to offer. If you would, please send me the spreadsheets you use as well. You can send them to [Email address Removed] if you would. Being so concerned about my credit, I was always afraid of how it would look for me to have a half dozen loans on my credit. Luckily, I have a wonderful hard money lender I work with. But thanks for all of the useful information.


Message Edited by Timothy on 12-23-2007 09:30 AM
Message 13 of 36
Jacque383
Regular Contributor

Re: Affects of House Flipping on Credit

Hi Prudentone,
 
I'll email you the spreadsheet. (Highcredit - I got your email and am sending you the spreadsheets as well).
 
Congratulations on your deals Prudentone. There's nothing wrong with using HML's. I've used them for quick flips for years. I just make sure to build in their fees to what I'm doing. Some of the reasons I like HML's is because I can write a low ball contract for cash. I can close within 3 days if need be...And with HML's,  I've been able to build in them carrying the loan for 6 months. This way I had the time I needed without having to make payments. The flexibility of HML's as well as the quick cash closings are well worth the cost of doing business (HML's).
 
As for trying to figure out what to pay. It's a crap shoot. I can make 20 offers a month and only 1 or 2 may go through...What's been interesting the last 3 months is how many come back after being on the market for a few months. I work my numbers backwards. I start with at least 5% below fair market value then plug in my costs, as well as what the minimum is I want to make on the deal...Once I have that I still reduce it - sometimes as much as 20% for the first offer out the door.
 
In today's market,  I'm making certain that AFTER repair costs, that I still have at least 30% equity in the property. I do so because with that much equity, I know I can refinance out of the property and simply use it as a lease/option if I need to have that as my worst case scenario without having to come up with any of my own money. This allows me to buy the property, fix it up and refinance getting back all my intital outlay and have no money into the deal. Plus I get a christmas present by the amount I take in as a option money.
 
Anyway, glad to hear you're doing well.
 
Spreadsheets are on the way.  
 
Message 14 of 36
Anonymous
Not applicable

Re: Affects of House Flipping on Credit

Is this something you do fulltime or just to round out your income? Either way, it sounds like you're getting in on flipping at the end of the real estate boom. We should have known the end was near when they started making television shows about flipping. Be careful. Have you created a separate company for your work? Maybe an LLC? Sole proprietors are responsible for all debts. You need something to keep your personal assets (and credit) separate from your business assets (credit) in case you get trapped and can't sell. You should spend a couple of hundred bucks and confer with a real estate or tax attorney, even if you love doing it and do it as a hobby. Good luck!
Message 15 of 36
Jacque383
Regular Contributor

Re: Affects of House Flipping on Credit

Hi Hopeful,
 
I do this fulltime, have for years now. And you are right, flipping is not what it was just a year ago. I've only done 4 flips this year - the only reason I sold those was because the neighbors happened to know someone or the real estate agent I use to list my properties happened to have someone looking for a home..... My intention isn't to flip right now anyway....  I'm doing more buying, fixing, refinancing and holding right now. It's an excellent time to buy, not so great to sell.
 
Regarding your question on LLC's. Yes, I have several LLC's for different investment strategies. I'm not going to go into all of that, it's just to much information on the internet.
 
As for the tax attorney, he and my accountant have become my best friends I see them so often.
 
Thanks for the concern.
 
 
 
 


Message Edited by Jacque383 on 07-27-2007 06:07 PM
Message 16 of 36
Anonymous
Not applicable

Re: Affects of House Flipping on Credit

I am researching "flipping" and am working with a real estate agent who is giving me some pointers. I have read your posts in this and I give you a big thumbs up as this has to be , by far, the most comprehensive advise I've came across yet. Please email your worksheets - whatever you think is appropriate for a new flipper. I'd surely appreciate it ... dar@unforgettable.com ....and thanks so much - Darr
Message 17 of 36
Anonymous
Not applicable

Re: Affects of House Flipping on Credit

Another question Jacque...I read where you said to advertise for an investor on craigslist etc.....the house I have in mind is 25,000 with mabe 10,000 in repairs needed (guesstamate).....how would that work with an investor? Do they lend you the money to be repaid? or do they buy the house and I do the work for a percentage? Please clarify that for me....thanks so much - Darr
Message 18 of 36
Anonymous
Not applicable

Re: Affects of House Flipping on Credit

This sounds like a great career if you love houses, renovating and decorating. Much better than sitting at a desk all day. And if you can manage to get through the next couple of years (or three or four), then the market will be right back up. This is just one of those cycles. (And almost all the people I know through my work at my law firm who are incredibly rich made their money in real estate or oil & gas -- and both of them require nerves of steel. I applaud all of you who are doing this.)
Message 19 of 36
Jacque383
Regular Contributor

Re: Affects of House Flipping on Credit

Darr,

 

I don’t have enough information to really answer your question. Frist though let me tell you that working with a realtor is fine…but do not rely on him/her. A realtor is looking at making a profit by selling you a house and possibly listing another one. You’re the one who has to deal with the pitfalls if you don’t run your numbers correctly.

 

To try to basically answer your question on an investor, lets use a simple model - one partner puts up the money and the other manages all the other aspects of the deal. The split is 50/50 of the profits with no implied return on the capital or the labor. So, they get nothing on their money other than 50% of the profit and you get nothing on your labor other than 50% of the profit.

 

Profit is after all hard costs are deducted and the original funds are returned to the cash investor.

 

Second point that really needs to be the reference point. Lets assume we are talking about deals that are really profitable rather than very marginal.

 

If you used hard money you can get the funding for the deal (maybe not all of the costs or maybe cash back after all the costs). The funds will cost you something like 14% per year plus 5 points and maybe some minor other costs (title insurance for the benefit of the lender).

 

The point is offer a cash partner what you need to so that you can get the deal done but not more than other sources of funding will cost you if both are a valid choice in a particular deal.

 

Many people think hard money is too expensive. You’ll have to look at all scenarios…If you have a profitable deal you will find that a split with a partner can cost double what hard money would have cost. If the deal is not able to be financed with hard money it could mean the deal is too skinny so using an equity partner is not going to help. Find a better deal. Remember you make your money going into a deal, not selling.

 

And another hint of advice - NEVER say "yes" to the first offer after you make you're offer...



Message Edited by Jacque383 on 07-27-2007 10:50 PM
Message 20 of 36
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