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Let's Talk MORTGAGES

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debz
Valued Member

Re: Let's Talk MORTGAGES

To all of the mortgage experts out there.  Yesterday the stock market took a huge tumble and they claim it's related to all of the subprime mortgages that were done in the past.  How will this effect the current mortgage approval process? 
 
Here's my scoop: 
I am having a house built and am due to settle August 16th.  I have been approved for a mortgage with a mid-score of 635.  I am putting 20% down and my DTI is very low.  Both  my husband and I have stable employment (me 19 years, him 10 years).  My home is being initially financed through the builder and will be sold to Countrywide after 3 months.  I opted to go with builder financing because of all of the incentives.  My rate is 6.625%.  Finally, my question:  can the builder and/or Countrywide come back and now say they have tightened their credit policies and withdraw my approval?   
Message 21 of 119
Anonymous
Not applicable

Re: Let's Talk MORTGAGES

It's my understanding that a mortgage company can deny a loan right up until the closing as long as the reasoning is justified, but that doesn't happen too often.  And, in fact, you can decline to sign the mortgage papers yourself (although you will sacrifice your earnest money).
 
You are putting 20% down.  That should make everyone happy even with a 620 score.  The people who are going to have problems with getting homes are the same ones who had problems getting homes back in the 60s and 70s and 80s:  value of the home is more than 2.5 times salary; can't verify salary; debt to credit ratio is too high; and low downpayment (along with credit issues).  BUT YOUR BIG PROBLEM IS THAT YOU MAY BE IN A CONTRACT FOR A HOME THAT IS NO LONGER WORTH THE MORTGAGE (see below).  Yes, you could have signed a contract to pay for a $250,000 home being built now that is really only going to be worth $200,000 (or less).  Before you sign the papers, make sure you get a second appraisal.
 
As to the earlier question about the fallout from the subprime mortgages, I think we are now seeing (just a few months later) that there is serious fallout.  Wells Fargo Bank announced today that it is closing down its subprime operations.  Countrywide is having problems with increased defaults from prime mortgages.  And the problems with these foreclosures isn't just the "traditional" reasons for defaults (divorce, ill health, loss of job).  The primary reason these homes are foreclosing is that the debtors can't pay the increased ARMs, and they can't refinance the ARMs because the value of these homes is decreasing -- so, the appraisal value doesn't match the amount of the mortgage.  Think about it like this:  you bought a home in 2002 with an ARM but you told yourself you could refinance before you had to pay the increased rate, you've been making your regular payments, the ARM is now set to increase, but when you go to refinance you can't get approved before the appraisal value is less than you owe.  That's because all the payments you've been making for 5 years has gone to interest and not principal.  That's why prime mortgages are starting to default.  People were buying homes in the $250,000-$500,00 range based on low ARMs and now their homes are worth $175,000-$425,000. 
 
I'm looking to buy a home in late 2007 or early 2008.  So for the past year I've been cleaning up my credit and looking at home prices.  Here in Dallas -- just looking over the internet at remax.com or century21.com -- I've found that the price of homes in the last couple of months has fallen considerably.  A home that was being offered for $175,000 in February is now being offered for $135,000, with seller paying closing costs.  That's because the seller is trying to sell the home before the bottom really falls out of the market.  And I see listing after listing after listing saying "home sold as is" or "short sale" which are other ways of saying "foreclosure" or "soon-to-be foreclosure."  Entire zip codes are dotted with foreclosures.  And Dallas is a "booming" market compared to Michigan.
 
Why is this being kept so quiet and, until very recently, out of the media?  If you are a homeowner (as a lot of voters are), you don't want foreclosure signs or vacant houses on your street.  Mortgage companies/banks sell foreclosures at reduced prices because they want to recoup their losses as soon as possible.  An important aspect of appraisals for existing homes is the price recently paid for comparable homes in the neighborhood.  The foreclosure drags down the value of all property in the neighborhood.  Most people don't care until they try to sell or refinance their home; that's when they learn how much trouble they are in.  As more and more people realize what's going on (because the economy as a whole will start to shrink and more and more people will get laid off), then these homeowners will become desparate and start screaming to their Congressmen to do something to save their homes.
 
On the bright side, anyone who is in the market for a home within 6-8 months will be able to buy a bigger, better home than they would otherwise have been able to afford because appraisals and prices will plummet.  That's why I'm confident that in 6-8 months I'll be able to buy a $175,000 home in Dallas for $135,000-$140,000.  If you are credit challenged right now (or you just are in the market for a home and don't currently own a home that you are going to sell), wait it out, clean up your credit, save for a 10% downpayment, and then buy a home later.  If you are going to buy a home after selling your home, you'd better start selling now.
Message 22 of 119
Anonymous
Not applicable

Re: Let's Talk MORTGAGES

hopeful-
 
Very interesting post, thanks.
Message 23 of 119
JC30
New Visitor

Re: Let's Talk MORTGAGES

My boyfriend and I are wanting to buy a house together. There are a few kinks though. He was laid off from his job last October and he became self employed this year.
 
His business is slowly growing but doesnt have any Income Tax proof of income since he hasn't had to report this year's income yet. As for me, I make decent money to support both of us until his business picks up but I've had credit issues in the past, especially with medical bills.
 
I've been working on cleaning up my credit over the past year but it's slow going. Is there a type of loan that will enable us to use his credit score and my income? Any info is appreciated! Thanks!
 
JC
 Dallas TX
Message 24 of 119
Anonymous
Not applicable

Re: Let's Talk MORTGAGES



hopeful wrote:
...
Why is this being kept so quiet and, until very recently, out of the media?  If you are a homeowner (as a lot of voters are), you don't want foreclosure signs or vacant houses on your street.  Mortgage companies/banks sell foreclosures at reduced prices because they want to recoup their losses as soon as possible.  An important aspect of appraisals for existing homes is the price recently paid for comparable homes in the neighborhood.  The foreclosure drags down the value of all property in the neighborhood.  Most people don't care until they try to sell or refinance their home; that's when they learn how much trouble they are in.  As more and more people realize what's going on (because the economy as a whole will start to shrink and more and more people will get laid off), then these homeowners will become desparate and start screaming to their Congressmen to do something to save their homes.
 
On the bright side, anyone who is in the market for a home within 6-8 months will be able to buy a bigger, better home than they would otherwise have been able to afford because appraisals and prices will plummet.  That's why I'm confident that in 6-8 months I'll be able to buy a $175,000 home in Dallas for $135,000-$140,000.  If you are credit challenged right now (or you just are in the market for a home and don't currently own a home that you are going to sell), wait it out, clean up your credit, save for a 10% downpayment, and then buy a home later.  If you are going to buy a home after selling your home, you'd better start selling now.

Intevervening to "save peoples' homes" would be the dumbest thing the politicians could do--which makes it highly likely to happen, of course.  The best course of action for government to take when a speculative bubble bursts is to let it burst, and then institute regulatory reforms to prevent a recurrence. 
 
The fact is a lot of people were buying homes who had no business buying homes.  And as more and more loan money was pumped into the economy, demand for housing went up, which caused prices to go further out of reach, which lead to more fiat money chasing homes, which drove prices up still higher...and so on...
 
The bubble needs to burst, and home prices return to where they were in the mid-'90s, before the speculative bubble formed.  Yes, this will result in a deep recession, but the piper has to be paid sooner or later.  Any kind of government bailout will just suck money from areas of the economy that are in balance and doing well, and redistribute it to people who engaged in irresponsible, speculative behavior.
 
The market will work this out without the planet falling off of its axis.  What will likely happen is a lot of homes will go into foreclosure.  Housing prices will fall, most likely around 15 to 25%.  More people will take innovative steps to avoid foreclosure, like renting out at least one room in their homes.  The surplus will spread to rental properties, and rents will likely take a 10 to 20% drop as well.  Builders will lose their jobs and some banks will go under, but as renters and home-buyers alike have less money tied up in rents and mortgages and more to spend on other things, other sectors of the economy will improve.
 
The dot-com bubble saw principles like this go into play.  Sure, a lot of companies folded and a lot of IT people lost their jobs...but a lot of office space, hardware and technical talent became available for cheap, which drove growth in other areas of the economy. 
 
 
 
 
Message 25 of 119
Anonymous
Not applicable

Re: Let's Talk MORTGAGES

Debz, lock that rate. That's a great deal as long as you are not buying it down any.

Message Edited by kfinkmortgage on 08-11-2007 08:20 PM
Message 26 of 119
Anonymous
Not applicable

Re: Let's Talk MORTGAGES

I have a question.  If my husband has good credit but i have bad credit, will my credit bring our chance of getting a mortgage way down?  He also has a VA loan.  How will that work?
Message 27 of 119
Anonymous
Not applicable

Re: Let's Talk MORTGAGES

I would also be very interested in the answer to this question.  I have applied to have our home re-fi thru VA but my dw scores are very low 600 and has 5-7 medical co.  I am still waiting to hear from the mortg co.  Thanks to everyone for any assistance.
Message 28 of 119
Anonymous
Not applicable

Re: Let's Talk MORTGAGES



TheNewWorldMan wrote:


hopeful wrote:
...
Why is this being kept so quiet and, until very recently, out of the media?  If you are a homeowner (as a lot of voters are), you don't want foreclosure signs or vacant houses on your street.  Mortgage companies/banks sell foreclosures at reduced prices because they want to recoup their losses as soon as possible.  An important aspect of appraisals for existing homes is the price recently paid for comparable homes in the neighborhood.  The foreclosure drags down the value of all property in the neighborhood.  Most people don't care until they try to sell or refinance their home; that's when they learn how much trouble they are in.  As more and more people realize what's going on (because the economy as a whole will start to shrink and more and more people will get laid off), then these homeowners will become desparate and start screaming to their Congressmen to do something to save their homes.
 
On the bright side, anyone who is in the market for a home within 6-8 months will be able to buy a bigger, better home than they would otherwise have been able to afford because appraisals and prices will plummet.  That's why I'm confident that in 6-8 months I'll be able to buy a $175,000 home in Dallas for $135,000-$140,000.  If you are credit challenged right now (or you just are in the market for a home and don't currently own a home that you are going to sell), wait it out, clean up your credit, save for a 10% downpayment, and then buy a home later.  If you are going to buy a home after selling your home, you'd better start selling now.

Intevervening to "save peoples' homes" would be the dumbest thing the politicians could do--which makes it highly likely to happen, of course.  The best course of action for government to take when a speculative bubble bursts is to let it burst, and then institute regulatory reforms to prevent a recurrence. 
 
The fact is a lot of people were buying homes who had no business buying homes.  And as more and more loan money was pumped into the economy, demand for housing went up, which caused prices to go further out of reach, which lead to more fiat money chasing homes, which drove prices up still higher...and so on...
 
The bubble needs to burst, and home prices return to where they were in the mid-'90s, before the speculative bubble formed.  Yes, this will result in a deep recession, but the piper has to be paid sooner or later.  Any kind of government bailout will just suck money from areas of the economy that are in balance and doing well, and redistribute it to people who engaged in irresponsible, speculative behavior.
 
The market will work this out without the planet falling off of its axis.  What will likely happen is a lot of homes will go into foreclosure.  Housing prices will fall, most likely around 15 to 25%.  More people will take innovative steps to avoid foreclosure, like renting out at least one room in their homes.  The surplus will spread to rental properties, and rents will likely take a 10 to 20% drop as well.  Builders will lose their jobs and some banks will go under, but as renters and home-buyers alike have less money tied up in rents and mortgages and more to spend on other things, other sectors of the economy will improve.
 
The dot-com bubble saw principles like this go into play.  Sure, a lot of companies folded and a lot of IT people lost their jobs...but a lot of office space, hardware and technical talent became available for cheap, which drove growth in other areas of the economy. 
 
 
 
 


While you make some good points I will say I dont agree with the government not helping out this crisis because they are the ones who are partially responsible for it as well.  A few years ago it was Bush's  idea that small and/or low income families should have a chance to own a house instead of renting.  He also included people who were receiving Section 8 for rent payment and allowed them to make their payment towards a mortgage instead. 
 
So federal offices like my community or for a better community popped up in atleast one city in each state offering downpayment assistance as well as home ownership classes.  This was a great idea.  The problem came when they decided to use what HUD considers low income as a basis of who should get a down payment grant.  Although they usually raise it every year, the total is still low and some of the amounts do not match the cost of living in that particular city/state. 
 
These people were/are getting anywheres between 10,000-30,000 towards downpayment assistance.  Because of the large amounts of grants, they are either deciding themselves, being talked into it by a family member or real estate broker to purchase a house that they cannot afford because they have a grant to cover the downpayment and avoid pmi. 
 
A lot of these people on their yearly salary would barely be able to afford a house with the assistance even if the prices were 20,000 less then what they were/are.  They are also being talked into it because paying a mortgage as well as taxes offer you huge breaks when it comes time to file.  They are right but the problem is is depending on when you bought it you might have to wait a whole year before you see said breaks.  You cant go a whole year not paying your electric or heat bill and/or wait that long to go grocery shopping.
 
Simply put the government has just as much stake/blame in the foreclosure rate increase and subprime mortgage market crashing.
Message 29 of 119
Anonymous
Not applicable

Re: Let's Talk MORTGAGES

Well, I never thought I'd say this because I had a bad experience with them more than 3 years ago (a bait-n-switch loan) but if I were you I'd run... not walk but run... over to Countrywide Home Loans and get yourself locked into a good fixed rate. It may not be as low as it could have been 6 months ago before the "credit crunch" but with your FICO scores and other bureau positives, you'll be better off just getting that rate fixed and making your payments on time for 12-24 months and then refinancing or streamlining again to something even lower.

This credit crunch is temporary, and despite some of the stuff you've been hearing about Countrywide (and I've had some bad things to say about them in the past), they are probably your best bet. They'll survive this crunch and so will you if you hurry and refi as soon as possible. I'd start today.

Good luck and let us know how you come out.
Message 30 of 119
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