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@coterotie wrote:The "basis" in the property was established at the date of transfer. So let's say on that date, 20 years ago, the property was worth 50,000. You execute a contract to purchase for $100,000 today. The owner would owe taxes on $50,000 of gains. UNLESS, they can prove they spent money on upgrades etc. OR if they occupied the home as their primary residence in 2 of the last 5 years. Usual income limitations etc. apply. As noted above, for an inheritance the basis is established at time of death/transfer to estate or trust.
I'm learnng a lot in this thread! Option B is the house will be sold to someone else if I don't purchase it. The money left after the cost to replace the septic, taxes and capital gains will be split between 6 people. At least that's what I was told is going to happen. Taxes and capital gains would be based on the formula above? And I guess there is a way to look back and see what the house was worth 20 years ago?
If we do go with option B, the annual gift exclusion amount $14,000. I'm esimating that we'd each receive about $25-$30K so I guess the gifts would have to be distributed over 2 year.
Whatever happened to being about to sell something to someone and that's it? I can understand having laws and guidelines to protect people but if a family member wants to sell their house to another family member, they should be able to do it without the government getting involved.
@masscredit wrote:
@coterotie wrote:The "basis" in the property was established at the date of transfer. So let's say on that date, 20 years ago, the property was worth 50,000. You execute a contract to purchase for $100,000 today. The owner would owe taxes on $50,000 of gains. UNLESS, they can prove they spent money on upgrades etc. OR if they occupied the home as their primary residence in 2 of the last 5 years. Usual income limitations etc. apply. As noted above, for an inheritance the basis is established at time of death/transfer to estate or trust.
I'm learnng a lot in this thread! Option B is the house will be sold to someone else if I don't purchase it. The money left after the cost to replace the septic, taxes and capital gains will be split between 6 people. At least that's what I was told is going to happen. Taxes and capital gains would be based on the formula above? And I guess there is a way to look back and see what the house was worth 20 years ago?
If we do go with option B, the annual gift exclusion amount $14,000. I'm esimating that we'd each receive about $25-$30K so I guess the gifts would have to be distributed over 2 year.
Whatever happened to being about to sell something to someone and that's it? I can understand having laws and guidelines to protect people but if a family member wants to sell their house to another family member, they should be able to do it without the government getting involved.
coterotie - what about the exclusion for primary residences? Doesn't the relative that has owned it and lived there the last 20 years qualify for the exclusion?
http://www.nolo.com/legal-encyclopedia/the-250000500000-home-sale-tax-exclusion.html
OP you need a CPA to help along with an attorney so this sale is done the right way and there ar no issues down the road for you or for the other 5 people.
Thanks for the info! I've briefly gone over some of this with my CPA. Mainly asked questions about capital gains and taxes if the house is sold so I'd have an idea how much we'll each be getting if it goes that way. The home is owned by my aunt who lives out of state.
This whole process seems like it can be easy or complicated. Easy for a normal sale and complicated if I want to do it privately.
@masscredit wrote:Thanks for the info! I've briefly gone over some of this with my CPA. Mainly asked questions about capital gains and taxes if the house is sold so I'd have an idea how much we'll each be getting if it goes that way. The home is owned by my aunt who lives out of state.
This whole process seems like it can be easy or complicated. Easy for a normal sale and complicated if I want to do it privately.
It does "seem" like it is more complicated than it really is. Before I learned these processes that the title companies normally perform behind the scenes, I would never have thought I would ever understand it!!! Luckily my situation occurred after the experience was gained. I just wish I could lead you in the right direction better but it would be unethical and potentially damaging in many many ways should one variable be incorrect. Knowing she lives out of State and it is not even her primary residence changes a lot right there. Depending on her overall assets, it could even be construed as investment or income-producing property.
While you know that isn't the case, this is just one way the property could be treated until the chain of title is cleared. It is doable - but I wouldn't advise it in an iffy circumstance like this - does ocelot with Real Property. Like I said too I wish I could veer you better but for all I know, another piece of the puzzle could supersede it all. It WILL work out though!!!!
That was the part about occupied 2 of the last 5 as principal residence. The fact that the mother gave the daughter the house 20 years ago, means that the principal resident was the mother and the daughter would have had to occupy the house 2 of the last 5 years.
Relatively easy to establish the basis from 20 years ago. Simply use the assessed value by the county tax assessor in that year.
One other tax answer, if the proceeds of a sale are to be divided 6 ways, then the taxes are owed by each of the people at their own personal tax rate. A 1099 would be issued to them to be included in their tax return for the year in which the property sale closed. Some people may owe zero, some may owe the maximum rate all depends on their income bracket.
Someone else mentioned state taxes. My answers are strictly for federal tax liability issues. SInce each state has their own tax laws some of which mirror federal law some don't I'm staying away from that.
If you're going to try to skirt this by using the gift tax exclusionns then realize that this needs to be done while the current owner owns the house. The $14,000 limitation is doubled if the person is married and is $14,000 per recipient. So if you have 6 interested parties they could be gifted 64,000 or 128,000 of value each year.
@StartingOver10 wrote:
@masscredit wrote:
@coterotie wrote:The "basis" in the property was established at the date of transfer. So let's say on that date, 20 years ago, the property was worth 50,000. You execute a contract to purchase for $100,000 today. The owner would owe taxes on $50,000 of gains. UNLESS, they can prove they spent money on upgrades etc. OR if they occupied the home as their primary residence in 2 of the last 5 years. Usual income limitations etc. apply. As noted above, for an inheritance the basis is established at time of death/transfer to estate or trust.
I'm learnng a lot in this thread! Option B is the house will be sold to someone else if I don't purchase it. The money left after the cost to replace the septic, taxes and capital gains will be split between 6 people. At least that's what I was told is going to happen. Taxes and capital gains would be based on the formula above? And I guess there is a way to look back and see what the house was worth 20 years ago?
If we do go with option B, the annual gift exclusion amount $14,000. I'm esimating that we'd each receive about $25-$30K so I guess the gifts would have to be distributed over 2 year.
Whatever happened to being about to sell something to someone and that's it? I can understand having laws and guidelines to protect people but if a family member wants to sell their house to another family member, they should be able to do it without the government getting involved.
coterotie - what about the exclusion for primary residences? Doesn't the relative that has owned it and lived there the last 20 years qualify for the exclusion?
http://www.nolo.com/legal-encyclopedia/the-250000500000-home-sale-tax-exclusion.html
OP you need a CPA to help along with an attorney so this sale is done the right way and there ar no issues down the road for you or for the other 5 people.
Correct me if I'm wrong but I think the money would fall under the gift tax exclusion. It would pretty much be a gift from my aunt after the house is sold. The house is worth about $225K. I'm figuring about $15K for the septic and maybe about $13K for selling fees to the agent. I don't know what the capital gains tax would be. If that's based on the different between what the house was worth 20 years ago and what's it's worth now, then it could be about $10K. I'll round it down to leaving $180K so each person would get about $30K.
I've been figuring we'd each get in the $25K-$30K range if the house is sold. Or, if I was to purchase it, it was suggested that my portion could be deductied from the price of the house.
@masscredit wrote:Correct me if I'm wrong but I think the money would fall under the gift tax exclusion. It would pretty much be a gift from my aunt after the house is sold. The house is worth about $225K. I'm figuring about $15K for the septic and maybe about $13K for selling fees to the agent. I don't know what the capital gains tax would be. If that's based on the different between what the house was worth 20 years ago and what's it's worth now, then it could be about $10K. I'll round it down to leaving $180K so each person would get about $30K.
I've been figuring we'd each get in the $25K-$30K range if the house is sold. Or, if I was to purchase it, it was suggested that my portion could be deductied from the price of the house.
The gift already occurred via the Aunt to Daughter. Any type of gift, if any, would be from the daughter to (splitting x number of ways).
I know you want to maximize everything; however, it is just too complicated of a situation to give "as solid as possible" advice when there are way too many pieces to this puzzle. I myself misread and did not realize the number of parties. For the sake of all involved, let REO/Probate type attorneys handle this transaction. Knowing it was transferred once 20 years ago between family further does not guarantee that particular transfer was proper. You definitely don't want to be in a position of a claim to title down the road when the current covenants on the property are more/less unknown. There could be a lien for who knows what during those 20 years that could resurrect and bite you later. It's not a fun or easy process!!! Wish there was more though but it's not worth misstating something critical.
Whichever way this goes, I hope that it is handled correctly. I'm doing research to see if there is any way that I can purchase the home. On my aunt's side, I know that her plan is the sell it and then divide the money after all of the expenses have been taken care of.
Again, you are applying multiple sections of the tax code and likely maximizing the amount of tax owed rather than minimizing. As a quick example, the cap gains exclusion for someone in the 10% bracket would result in much lower taxes than if someone is in the 30% plus bracket. Plus you have ACA Medicare issues potentially involved as well. Far simpler to gift an interest in the property, sell the property and let each person handle the taxes on their own. Your aunt could also trigger local tax issues. As an example here in Alabama, she could lose the property tax exemption on her primary residence if her income exceeds a certain amount.
Tread carefully.
@masscredit wrote:Correct me if I'm wrong but I think the money would fall under the gift tax exclusion. It would pretty much be a gift from my aunt after the house is sold. The house is worth about $225K. I'm figuring about $15K for the septic and maybe about $13K for selling fees to the agent. I don't know what the capital gains tax would be. If that's based on the different between what the house was worth 20 years ago and what's it's worth now, then it could be about $10K. I'll round it down to leaving $180K so each person would get about $30K.
I've been figuring we'd each get in the $25K-$30K range if the house is sold. Or, if I was to purchase it, it was suggested that my portion could be deductied from the price of the house.