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Crypto Currency

Established Contributor

Re: Crypto Currency

My daughters boyfriend had to rush out of house the other day ....he had to go out and buy bitcoin for his 60 year old father lol. He was almost frantic. He left and I said this sounds like bubble. Almost like joe Kennedy with shoeshine boy in 1929

Message 21 of 62
Regular Contributor

Re: Crypto Currency

26221141_2077029905916847_2412118862236682844_o.jpg

 

 



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Message 22 of 62
Super Contributor

Re: Crypto Currency


Shenron wrote:
I am sure most savy investors are aware of this possibility and are hedged. It's already happened in the past several times, pandacoin for example. Of all the crypto criticism in this thread, it's just anecdotal opinions of people imho who have never owned any crypto and are regurgitating the false narrative of wall street and the big banks. I would love if more places adopted it so there wasn't a need to cash out to fiat currency. I like having free transfers to anyone I want anywhere in the world. If I was a tycoon of the banking cartels I would be against it but there is no reason for regular people to be so overwhelmingly negative without any actual reason besides (its backed by nothing, pump and dump, etc.)

I'll stick to the facts which are bitcoin has many advantages and an inflated price. I am sure it will crash so I am not holding right now but thats no reason to abondon it completely or talk trash based on misinformation (or no information lol).

Sign up on an exchange and trade some or heaven forfend read about it somewhere other than Forbes magazine or wherever people are getting their biased opinions about how bitcoin "isn't worth the paper it's printed on". That one made me really lol, or smh.

Interesting read ... appreciate the many different points of view and the information. As to Shenron, because people see different perspectives doesn't necessarily mean they are for or against it they are free to offer their insight which may be of value or not. Personally, I like mining for precious metals and people look at me funny since it can be quite high risk and volatile so yes, it can be so you have to pay attention. Folks seem shy about the subject so fine we held a conversation on it and they can go invest as they like. I don't really care! I like precious metals and have done all right. You need to realize there are likely many views on the subject of this thread and the other views may be just as correct as yours or mine. Accept their posts for what they are, offer examples to enhance the other poster's knowledge on the subject and accept not everyone will follow. So what?

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Message 23 of 62
Valued Contributor

Re: Crypto Currency

I'm a big fan of the original bitcoin cryptocurrency.  I've been involved in BTC since 2012 and have had an autobuy of $100-$150 per week every week since around late 2012.  Crypto is part of my overall portfolio though -- I try to keep my crypto to somewhere between 6% and 12% of my overall net worth, so I definitely have sold a lot of bitcoin in my life in order to keep my exposure under 12% but preferably around 6%.

 

I "invest" $100-$300 per week in many asset categories, automatically.  My preferred ratios are:

 

  • Gold/silver physical bullion 10%
  • US Cash 10% (savings/CD ladder)
  • Real estate (physical or REIT) 20%
  • Stocks (both pre tax and post tax) 20%
  • Crypto 10%
  • Productive assets 10% (currently heavily invested in electric cars that I rent on Turo, etc, but this category changes)
  • Fixed income assets 10%
  • Hard money lending/ABS investments 10% (fluctuates with market expectations)

Over the past 25 years, I have never had a negative return year, but I also haven't had explosive growth like some folks who put all their eggs in one basket.  I have faith in Bitcoin itseld due to the "network effect" and support across many different markets.  I don't really trust the alt-coins (especially Ethereum which I think is vaporware) but I do have about 5% of my overall crypto in Monero just because I like the developers unique methods.

 

As in anything, don't invest anywhere as a "get rich quick" method.  Invest in many different baskets of goods and only invest what you can afford to lose.

 

If you don't have an investment portfolio, do not invest in crypto.  Instead, start putting $5-10 away weekly in different investment products (StashInvest, Crypto, maybe a high yield savings account to purchase rental properties in the future, etc).

 

I retired at age 41 because of my focus on investing in many different categories, and investing practically every week in small amounts.  If it wasn't for me investing in many different categories, my bitcoin gains wouldn't mean jack because those gains could have been total losses.

 

My rule for those I mentor: if you spend on luxuries more than you invest in your own future, you will always be poor or feel like you're always poor.  Crypto is one tiny portion of my overall investment plan and portofolio.  Yes, I've "sold" the equivalent of $40 million in Bitcoin in the past 6 years, but so what?  Whenever I sold bitcoin to balance my portfolio, I used the proceeds to bump up something else that brings in cash.

Message 24 of 62
Super Contributor

Re: Crypto Currency

ABCD2199 this is off the OP's thread but where is your seedling? You have graphed your gardening progress! Smiley Happy
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Message 25 of 62
Valued Contributor

Re: Crypto Currency


Dinosaur wrote:
ABCD2199 this is off the OP's thread but where is your seedling? You have graphed your gardening progress! Smiley Happy

That image is actually a realtime chart published from Google Sheets -- I am trying to code that sheet to automatically throw the proper seedling/spade up, lol.  Having trouble with it working but getting warmer.  That chart should technically update daily with progress without my interaction.

Message 26 of 62
Regular Contributor

Re: Crypto Currency

Isn't the spade change every six months? Its not often.

Idk I don't take disagreement about this personally, I just can't relate to "its not worth the paper its printed on" and such comments which add nothing but negativity.

If people think its a bubble or bad investment fine, maybe it is. But I take issue with those saying it has no value, isn't backed by anything, etc.

I disagree but as I said earlier in the thread I'm not invested in crypto or anything else, just reading.

I appreciate every point of view. Just tying to make mine understood: the cryptocoin technology has tremendous value to a lot of people and even tough btc is inflated today, that doesn't make it worthless.

The dollar is backed by faith and credit in the FRS. Lol 😂



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Message 27 of 62
Valued Contributor

Re: Crypto Currency


Shenron wrote:
Isn't the spade change every six months? Its not often.

Idk I don't take disagreement about this personally, I just can't relate to "its not worth the paper its printed on" and such comments which add nothing but negativity.



Those folks don't understand the concept of "money", but also remember that probably 95% of people don't understand what money is.  Per Rothbard (from "WHGDTOM"), money needs to be portable, durable, divisible, rare, fungible, not essential for consumption, easily recognizable and also a store of value.  Bitcoin is all of these things but not all alt-coins are.  The dollar, and all fiat currencies, are poor "moneys" because of the fiat part as well as the lack of divisibility, etc.

 

Of course, it is in your interest (and mine) to continue to convince others to have hope in fiat currencies -- I'd prefer that folks NOT invest in real estate and crypto and future tech and instead invest in 99" OLED TVs and the latest quarterback jerseys.  I'm selfish and would prefer not to share.

Message 28 of 62
Established Contributor

Re: Crypto Currency


ABCD2199 wrote:

Shenron wrote:
Isn't the spade change every six months? Its not often.

Idk I don't take disagreement about this personally, I just can't relate to "its not worth the paper its printed on" and such comments which add nothing but negativity.



Those folks don't understand the concept of "money", but also remember that probably 95% of people don't understand what money is.  Per Rothbard (from "WHGDTOM"), money needs to be portable, durable, divisible, rare, fungible, not essential for consumption, easily recognizable and also a store of value.  Bitcoin is all of these things but not all alt-coins are.  The dollar, and all fiat currencies, are poor "moneys" because of the fiat part as well as the lack of divisibility, etc.

 

Of course, it is in your interest (and mine) to continue to convince others to have hope in fiat currencies -- I'd prefer that folks NOT invest in real estate and crypto and future tech and instead invest in 99" OLED TVs and the latest quarterback jerseys.  I'm selfish and would prefer not to share.


Ugh. Ok, let's do this once more.

 

The statement that no cryptocurrency today (including bitcoin) is backed by anything isn't an opinion, and it isn't a negative attack. It is a fact. If someone takes exception to that, well...I'm sorry, but being upset doesn't change what the facts are.

 

Yes, currency should be portable, fungible, divisble, and so on, but that is all irrelevant to its backing. Backing comes from a sovereign government. It does not come from people who really like it or think governments suck or think that the wave of the future is cryptocurrency. It comes from sovereign governments and only sovereign governments. No matter how much people want bitcoin to be a currency, until the Fed says it is accepted as legal tender, it is only tender if both parties in a transaction agree it is. To put it another way, bitcoin is backed with the same authority as Chuck-E-Cheese game tokens: none.

 

We live in a fiat world where almost no currency in the world is backed by precious metal or other commodities anymore, so this government backing becomes all the more important.

 

Why is this important? Because it means that, by law in that country, that currency must be accepted as legal tender. Do not confuse this with the form of payment (cash only vs card only, exact change only, and so on). If I'm in the United States, no business or individual in the United States to whom I owe a debt cannot tell me they will not accept dollars in some form for payment. They can say no to bitcoin or any other cryptocurrency, and why they are backed by nothing - there is no mandate that it must be accepted as a currency, anywhere - and so again its value today is only what an creditor is willing to assign to it. Just like Chuck-E-Cheese tokens.

 

Can fiat currency fail just as spectacularly should its government fail or otherwise become insolvent? Yes, of course - and we had that problem under the Articles of Confederation ourselves.

 

For some individuals, backing doesn't matter - and I even suspect that's part of it's appeal to some. For others, it may well mean a lot - assets backed by something tend to be more stable, if less rewarding, and the probability of the US government failing to the point the dollar becomes worthless is minimal. It's lack of backing isn't a condemnation of it - it's a caution to expect volatility....lots of volatility.

 

I don't even know what to say to the last paragraph. What do TVs and jerseys have to do with fiat currencies that real estate, crypto, and equities don't? What you buy with your money, be it real estate or football jerseys, was purchased all the same with fiat currency...

Message 29 of 62
Regular Contributor

Re: Crypto Currency

To say categorically that cryptocurrency is not backed by anything is not entirely or technically true. 

 

The way that I understand it is that crytocurrency is backed by the processing effort expended on the part of those who originally mined each unit. Now that may sound a bit like nonsense but it does make sense on a certain level. Think of it this way, why is gold so valuable? Its industrial and practical applications account for only a tiny proportion of its value as an asset. The reason is that it's rare. But if you think about it, gold actually isn't rare. Trace amounts of it is common. But what makes gold rare is the fact that to recover or mine gold even from "economically viable" deposits takes an enormous amount of investment and capital and thus while the total amount of gold in nature may be high, the feasibility of obtaining it is low and thus gold is rare. The same principle can be broadly applied to crytocurrency, it is backed by the fact that in order to mine it, a certain amount of processing power is required and that amount increases over time per unit mined. No one can come along and take a shortcut and obtain crytocurrency without someone somewhere expending the requisite processing power. Thus, crytocurrency has a scarcity factor to it that is very similar to precious metals. As for its utility, I would argue that while there may be few tangible applications of cryptocurrency, they (and the technology that underpins them) actually has a lot of potential for many real-world applications. But again, like precious metals, the value of crytocurrency does not lie in its application but rather its scarcity. As long as people think its valuable, it will be. In the same way, as long as people think gold is valuable it is. Otherwise its simply a metal with certain useful but niche applications for which annual production far outstrips demand from those applications. 

 

I will also add that to say that fiat currencies derive their value from legal tender legislation is a very simplistic way of looking at it. Sure, the dollar is backed by the full faith and credit of the US government and $1 is worth $1. But what does that mean? What does $1 get me? The answer is that true value is determined by the market as it does all floating currencies. $1 could get me a loaf of bread one day and a car the next, if the markets say so. So in reality, the value of the dollar is also based on what people assign to it which is based on how people view the health of a nation's economy for instance, or how stable they think the government is. 

Message 30 of 62