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Valued Member
gregd64
Posts: 43
Registered: ‎03-25-2009

CA bought old debt.

Pinnacle bought a Old debt where the SOL has run out. I called  OC they stated they had no files etc..etc and had sold the account to four score (pinnacle) When i sent a DV after discovering it on my free report this month they sent me  OC name / account number / original amount /10% interest and new amount. I never recieved a dunning letter. Since the CA bought the account and I have no proof they really did is this a valid DV?  There were several error on the account, even though they bought the account, NH states they are still considered an CA and and cannot charge 10%,  My address was also wrong on the DV response. Basically how can i prove or get them to prove they can even collet?  Dont they have to send me some form of proff they bought the debt? whats my next step? Pinncale has replied they bought the debt but the OC state four score bought the debt. ?????????? They also illegally reaged the acccount original fall of my report from OC was beginning of 2013 , pinnacle state 07/2015 and wrongly stated the last time a payment was made to the OC DOFD.  Whats my next step? i sent a second Dv already.  I just want them gone from my credit report.

 

Thanks

Moderator Emeritus
llecs
Posts: 32,880
Registered: ‎08-04-2007

Re: CA bought old debt.

Per a DV, the CA doesn't have to prove that they bought the debt. Per the FDCPA, they validated with the info provided. With regards to the dunning, they do have to send you one. If you ever moved or change addresses during that time it could be they didn't have your info. If you never moved, then somewhere along the line there was a clerical error. I wouldn't rely on that to get them off.

 

I'm not familiar with NH law, but if there's a statute that says that a CA can never charge interest, then that's something. Re-aging is a big issue. Contact the OC and verify by asking for the last few statements or look at your own information. If the DOFD was changed from a 2008 DOFD vs a 2006 DOFD and you are absolutely certain the account soured and you never recovered in 2006, then that's something too. Make sure you ignore the date of last payment. That means nothing. DOFD is key. Make sure the DOFD didn't change to an incorrect date.

 

If I was in that situation, and if Pinnacle was on my CR and I was 100% beyond positive that they illegally reaged and was 100% positive they cannot charge interest, then I would enter a crossroads how I was to get it off. Two options: 1) PFD or 2) craft a letter pointing out these two issues and firmly ask that they go away. I personally would do #1 if I knew I owed that amount (I'd subtract the 10% interest claim if I knew they cannot charge interest). But my next choice would be to wait out DV#2's response and I'd give them about a month to respond. If they didn't respond by then, then I'd do the following:

 

1) I'd look up licensing info in their and your state, if applicable.

2) I'd customize a new DV letter asking for the balance owed all the while pointing out they they didn't properly validate per Sect. 809 because the balance is incorrect (I would not tell them the balance). I'd also point out NH law and cite the specific statutes telling them they cannot charge interest, though I'd be ambiguous and not reveal the entire statute, only snippits. Next, without revealing the correct DOFD, I would tell them they are in violation of the FCRA (look it up first on correct reporting of a DOFD or what defines DOFD) by reporting an incorrect DOFD and by re-aging it. Add any NH statute that may be applicable here, again, only portions. I would not include your proof from the OC. Place a demand in that letter to correct the DOFD and the balance OR delete immediately. Send CMRRR.

3) Wait.

4) If they respond by correcting both, then offer a PFD. If not then hint at suing them for incorrect reporting and respond based on their response. File a complaint with the BBB, your NH AG, and to any agency they may handle consumer affairs in NH.

5) Wait again and see what happens. If nothing happens, then you can always sue.

 

 

Valued Member
gregd64
Posts: 43
Registered: ‎03-25-2009

Re: CA bought old debt.

Thanks Great info, they definatley re-aged the DOFD to add year onto the OC fall off date and NH does allow interest but 7% not 10% for a CA which they are legally still considered by NH law even though they bought the account. What makes me made the way my credit report reads I have sero lates or bads for 3 years then this popped up claiming I have monthly payment terms and am 90 days late. It was first posted the second week of this past july.

 

I will wait on the second DV response as you suggested. I have an old 2008 CR thats stated a whole different date of for missed payment and last time i paid.

 

 

Thanks

again.

Moderator Emeritus
llecs
Posts: 32,880
Registered: ‎08-04-2007

Re: CA bought old debt.


gregd64 wrote:

Thanks Great info, they definatley re-aged the DOFD to add year onto the OC fall off date....


Remember, how an OC reports is totally unrelated to any CA action. If the OC shows a different fall off date on your CR, then it is the OC that re-aged it. In other words, a CA cannot change an OC's reporting.

Mega Contributor
RobertEG
Posts: 17,456
Registered: ‎03-19-2007

Re: CA bought old debt.

[ Edited ]

I will comment only on the issue of DOFD and projected CR falloff date.

 

The primary date that the CRAs use for calculalion of DOFD, and thus computation of projected falloff date, is reported to them under FCRA 623(a)(5).

The CRAs cannot rely only on prior reproting done by the OC.  OCs are not requrired to ever have even reported to a CRA before doing referring a debt for collection.

That is the whole reason for FCRA 623(a)(5).  The collection agency is requried to notify the CRA, within 90-days of posting a collection to your CR, to provide the CRA with the DOFD that the CRA needs to compute how long then can continue to include the reported CA in your CR.

How they do this is regualted by FCRA 623(a)(5)(B).

If the original creditor did provide a DOFD to the CRAs while their account was active, then FCRA 623(a)(5)(B)(i) governs.  It requires that the date reported by the CA must be the same as that previously reported by the OC.

If the original credtor did not previously provide a DOFD to the CRAs, then the CA is requried to first follow "reasonablle procedures" to obtain that date from the OC.  FCRA 623(a)(5)(B)(ii).

If the original creditor did not previouosy provide a DOFD to the CRAs, and the CA has taken the reasonable procdures mandated under FCRA 623(a)(5)(B)(ii) in an attempt to obtain that date, and was unsuccessful. then FCRA 623(a)(5)(B)(iii) kicks in as the last resort.  It then specifies that the DOFD that they report must, at least preceded, the date the account was placed into collection.

 

OCs and CAs dont report fall off dates.  That responsibility lies, under FCRA 605(a), soley with the CRAs, who then calcualte it based on the accuracy of the DOFD reported to them.

 

If DOFD is still a point of dispute, then you can file a request with the CRA for the reported FCRA 623(a)(5) date in your credit file.

This is done by way of request for disclosure letter under FCRA 609(a), which gives you the right to request all information in your consumer file as of the date of your request.  You must include payment of the fee of $10.50 (FCRA 612(f)) to pay for the cost of this request.

 

 

 

Valued Member
gregd64
Posts: 43
Registered: ‎03-25-2009

Re: CA bought old debt.

[ Edited ]

Thanks again,

 

The weirdest thing happened..NES who is collecting for pinnacle called me at work and stated" Mr.. Brown, we have received your complaints from the BBB/FTC and AGNH, we feel Pinnacle has mistakenly reportied this account and have sent in a request to have it deleted since the SOL has also run out"  I said excuse me could you please repeat that again? and she did and gave me her phone number and extension to call her Monday to verify the deletes were sent to the CRA's?  have you ever heard of such a thing in your life?  Then I asked her politely to send me a letter stating they are deleteing from all 3 CRA's and the accout will not be resold but deleted from there files since Pinnacle bought it.  She said Ok, and she verified my mailing address.  I was shocked.  Oh yeh they also violated another rule since in my DV letter i stated they only communicate with me through the mail and not at work.  I wont complain if they actually do it.

Mega Contributor
RobertEG
Posts: 17,456
Registered: ‎03-19-2007

Re: CA bought old debt.

I can only speculate.  Maybe the CA now sees that you know the rule.   I would only speculateb that are willing to delete in order not to have to answer to more factual questions on their activities.

A win is a win!

Frequent Contributor
daboss28
Posts: 483
Registered: ‎06-07-2010

Re: CA bought old debt.


gregd64 wrote:

Thanks again,

 

The weirdest thing happened..NES who is collecting for pinnacle called me at work and stated" Mr.. Brown, we have received your complaints from the BBB/FTC and AGNH, we feel Pinnacle has mistakenly reportied this account and have sent in a request to have it deleted since the SOL has also run out"  I said excuse me could you please repeat that again? and she did and gave me her phone number and extension to call her Monday to verify the deletes were sent to the CRA's?  have you ever heard of such a thing in your life?  Then I asked her politely to send me a letter stating they are deleteing from all 3 CRA's and the accout will not be resold but deleted from there files since Pinnacle bought it.  She said Ok, and she verified my mailing address.  I was shocked.  Oh yeh they also violated another rule since in my DV letter i stated they only communicate with me through the mail and not at work.  I wont complain if they actually do it.


This is what they told you??  I'm curious because you posted that the OC had a fall off date of 2013.  If so then this would not be the case.

 

What did you state in your letters to the BBB/FTC?? There might have been another factor. From what I've read the xtra interest, 3%, is in violation of state law and you have proof of such in  a letter you recieved.  Was that mentioned in any of your letters?  That's a violation that's rewardable with monetary compensation and they would not want to bring that to your attention.  It's very possible that they are concealing the real reason they are backing off.  But hey you are getting it off your reports you have their word.

 

Have you recieved any letter back from BBB or FTC regarding the matter?

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Valued Member
gregd64
Posts: 43
Registered: ‎03-25-2009

Re: CA bought old debt.

[ Edited ]

Hi,

 

Yeh I mentioned the extra 3%, plus wrong address on the DV letter they sent so I DV'd them again. Basically I mentioned on my BBB/FTC complaints no dunning letter and never heard of these people until i got my free annual credit report and that i had in my possesion a debt verification response which states a wrong address and being over charged by state of NH laws interest rate allowed for a CA. Since the DOFD from the OC had a fall off date 1 year earlier than the CA. They are in at least 3 violations not to mention the SOL has expired.  The OC isnt deleting the CA is for what my guess would be i proved to them i had proof they violated my FTC rights.

 

Thanks

Frequent Contributor
daboss28
Posts: 483
Registered: ‎06-07-2010

Re: CA bought old debt.

Ok so you know the REAL reasons and yeah the OC still has the right to report.  They were still in the crtp time period however the xtra 3%, the more than a year lag for drop off date, the dunning notice i'll leave that one alone I don't know if they can state whether they sent letter to address on records and what not.

 

But yeah those are the reasons they did not want to state because they can come with monetary compensation thru a lawsuit.  I was just curious becuase the reason they given you for deletion was not true had they played by the rules they would still have been able to collect legally but good for you they were dishonest.  Now you don't have to deal with them anymore.

 

I would work something out directly with the OC while they're are inbetween CA's least at the moment they don't have a CA to pawn you off to in the meantime.  Negotiate  a PFD and relieve both parties (you and them) of the possible hassles in the future.

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