Catch 22 Between AMEX and Experian

[Anonymous]

I have done whatever I can to increase my score, but I simply can't win.  I have spent literally thousands of dollars over the past 3 years, and I am 30 points lower than when I started.  NOW, I had an AMEX card Charge Off in March, 2013.  "Paid.  Charged Off".   This year, a "fail to pay"" came up against this card on my report as of September, 2014.  That moves my latest negative up about 18 months, and my score drops.  Seems intuitive that I can't be late on something charged off, right?  I called AMEX.  They said they hadn't reported anything on the account since March, 2013.  Since AMEX didn't report the later date,  they can't act on anything they didn't do.  Back to Experian with on-line dispute.   Denied.  Try to repeat online.  Rejected because it had been disputed and denied already.  I pay to belong to Experian, so I scoured the site and now I could talk to someone who actually talked to me and filed a dispute.  This dispute is denied, but because AMEX replied to my dispute with Experian, the "fail to pay" now appears in April, 2015!!!!!!  My score dropped 18 points and is a red flag for my current creditors, as well.  So, I called today and spoke to someone and she looked it up.  She told me that happens sometimes.  But, she added the good news is, the account will drop off in another 7 months.  I asked her, "I would have been better off to not have disputed the error?"  The said, "Yes".   When that happens, any increase in score wll by based on the current number.   Does anyone have any idea about what I can do? . 

[RobertEG]

Can you clarify.....

The fact that they reported a charge-off does not affect either the continued debt balance or its delinquency status.

A debt can continue to accure delinquencies if it has been charged-off.  A CO is merely an internal accounting measure that the credirot took and reported.

Has the debt been paid?

What is meant by a "fail to pay came up against the card"?  Does that mean that a creditor pulled your report and determined that the debt was not paid, or does it mean that the creditor reported something related to its non-payment?

[Anonymous]

I paid AMEX in full for this account.  As I said, they denied reporting anything since MAR 2013, even though a "fail to pay" notation came up as SEP2014, and now APR 2015 because they responded to the dispute and evidently it was captured as a negative.  You make a good point, and the fact that the account was eventually paid in full I need to clarify with them.  However, given this, would it not still be a Charge Off and if they replied to a dispute on a paid charge off, would it not still show up as a charge off?  If AMEX claims they haven't reported on the account, but responded to a dispute....could the issue be the way Experian captures the information?  So, if it is an unpaid debt, AMEX could continue to report it as a negative month my month for the duration of the 7 years, even though it was charged off?  So, if all of my creditors who have been paid in full or accepted a settlement choose to keep reporting this as if it happened last week, there is no hope.  I am lost as to whether the issue is with AMEX or Experian.  I guess I have to find an OVATION or LEXINGTON and pay 60-100/month to eventually find out.    Aty this point, if someone or something could acutally help, I woud cough up a few thousand to crawl out of this.

[sjt]

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@Anonymous wrote:

I have done whatever I can to increase my score, but I simply can't win.  I have spent literally thousands of dollars over the past 3 years, and I am 30 points lower than when I started.  NOW, I had an AMEX card Charge Off in March, 2013.  "Paid.  Charged Off".   This year, a "fail to pay"" came up against this card on my report as of September, 2014.  That moves my latest negative up about 18 months, and my score drops.  Seems intuitive that I can't be late on something charged off, right?  I called AMEX.  They said they hadn't reported anything on the account since March, 2013.  Since AMEX didn't report the later date,  they can't act on anything they didn't do.  Back to Experian with on-line dispute.   Denied.  Try to repeat online.  Rejected because it had been disputed and denied already.  I pay to belong to Experian, so I scoured the site and now I could talk to someone who actually talked to me and filed a dispute.  This dispute is denied, but because AMEX replied to my dispute with Experian, the "fail to pay" now appears in April, 2015!!!!!!  My score dropped 18 points and is a red flag for my current creditors, as well.  So, I called today and spoke to someone and she looked it up.  She told me that happens sometimes.  But, she added the good news is, the account will drop off in another 7 months.  I asked her, "I would have been better off to not have disputed the error?"  The said, "Yes".   When that happens, any increase in score wll by based on the current number.   Does anyone have any idea about what I can do? . 

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Did you pay Amex in full or a settlement for less then owed.

[RobertEG]

Once an account is charged-off, the reported charge-off is not later deleted if the debt is paid.

It is a historical fact that they, at that moment in time, took an accounting measure.

Regardless of whethr the debt is paid, the CO will remain in your file and affect your scoring unless the creditor agrees to report its deletion.

You can request them to delete the CO, but they are not required to do so.

The CO will become excluded from your credit report, and thus from scoring, no later than 7 years plus 180 days from the DOFD on the account.

If you paid the debt, then the creditor was required to have updated the status from derogatory (which could have been eithr its higher level of monthly delinquency or the charge off status) to paid.  Additinally, they were required to also update the current balance to $0.  Both of those updates were required under FCRA 623(a)(2) promtply after your payment of the debt.  They are not permiited to delay that reporteing at their liesure.

[Anonymous]

This particular AMEX Account went to collection and ended up in a judgement, which I paid in full.

[Anonymous]

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@RobertEG wrote:

Once an account is charged-off, the reported charge-off is not later deleted if the debt is paid.

It is a historical fact that they, at that moment in time, took an accounting measure.

Regardless of whethr the debt is paid, the CO will remain in your file and affect your scoring unless the creditor agrees to report its deletion.

You can request them to delete the CO, but they are not required to do so.

The CO will become excluded from your credit report, and thus from scoring, no later than 7 years plus 180 days from the DOFD on the account.

If you paid the debt, then the creditor was required to have updated the status from derogatory (which could have been eithr its higher level of monthly delinquency or the charge off status) to paid.  Additinally, they were required to also update the current balance to $0.  Both of those updates were required under FCRA 623(a)(2) promtply after your payment of the debt.  They are not permiited to delay that reporteing at their liesure.

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From what the person from AMEX credit reporting tells me, they had not reported further on the account after the charge off.  Experian showed it charged off 18 months later than it was, so it gave me a more recent derogatory and dropped my score.  When I disputed it, the result was that Experian shows the result of hte dispute as a charge off this month, which droppeed my score because of the very recent derogatory.   SO;:  CREDITOR DOES NOTHING.  EXP out of nowhere show a derogatory that was not reported.  When I appeal, the response to the appeal is noted that very day.  The charge off was three years ago, and I have had no late payments and had no derogatories for 3 years unitl last SEP and now in APR.    Maybe this is just the way it is, but I have trouble accepting EXP telling me, "that happens sometimes".   Shouldn't it be consistent?  Either that's their practice, or it isn't.

[sjt]

Can you do a screen shoot or cut and paste the text of how its reporting to give us a better insight of whats going on.

[Horrace36]

Through a tremendous number of phone calls I discovered that Experian uses a third party to report to FICO, Experian Direct (i think its actually a wholly owned subsidiary).  I got whipsawed between Experian, Experian Direct and FICO. No one takes responsibility and they just point fingers at the others. Additionally, issues arise on reporting code when its transferred between parties. Found contact info for a person at Experian Direct that wanted to talk. No one is truly paying attention. Why should they? They're monopolies.

[Anonymous]

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@Horrace36 wrote:

Through a tremendous number of phone calls I discovered that Experian uses a third party to report to FICO, Experian Direct (i think its actually a wholly owned subsidiary).  I got whipsawed between Experian, Experian Direct and FICO. No one takes responsibility and they just point fingers at the others. Additionally, issues arise on reporting code when its transferred between parties. Found contact info for a person at Experian Direct that wanted to talk. No one is truly paying attention. Why should they? They're monopolies.

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Good to know.  I guess I really need to simplify and reframe my question.  

There are two derogs on my report in error.  No creditor reported them.   EXP so far will do nothing, after at least 2 failed disputes and multiple phone calls.  What recourse do I have?  I have gone with Ovation in the past, and it was largely a big, long waste.  I can afford to get an attorney, but I am not sure what that would do, although I am going to consult one.  How do you get through to someone who can do someting?   The first line people on the phone can't are no help.   Is there a next step after disputing and phone calls fail?  It should be a very simple fix.