Collection Agency phone discussion question.

[legacys7]

I'd spoke with a agent, trying to pay off a credit card debt. The first thing that I'd asked was for clarification to confirm the debt. After she confirmed and I'd acknowledge the debt, I'd asked to see if I can make an agreement where I pay off the debt and the negative report will be removed. She said that she doesn't know the procedure to that, but can report that the debt has been paid off to the Big 3 credit report.  Okay, I'd made a deal with her to pay if off but with a lessor fee. But before we got that far, she'd asked me if a company by the name of Monarch blah blah called me. I told her, "not that I can recall. Why do you asked." She tells me that it's another collection agency, but within their office. I smell b.s. Correct me if I'm wrong. I'm wagering that this is a total different company, trying to collect the debt, seeing that the initial agency wasn't able to get in touch with me, up til today. 

I told her that I would call her on the dates that I want to pay this debt off on this coming Monday, the deal that we have on the lower payment. I hang up and she calls me back just that quick. I hear desperation in her voice to get a committed date. I told her that I can't do anything until this coming Monday. She got paranoid, explaining that she want to have this down so that we can go from there, just in case someone else calls and the agreement changes between today and Monday.  Last. She'd mentioned that I have a very old debt from the 90's, but it's my call if I want to pay on it. Thoughts and suggestions on this interested conversation? 

[guiness56]

Even if it was a totally different CA, the CA attempting to collect has to have authority to do so.  There is a CA called Monarch Recovery in PA.

It is a bit confusing as to why she even brought it up.  And if the other CA is within their offices I would bet it is part of the CA you were talking to.

You could always contact the OC and find out who they sold/assigned the debt to.

[nocreditmaster]

A word of CAUTION…   the debt from the 90’s is a junk bond company that bought your debt for pennies. They will chase you forever and they will not go away. DO NOT even talk with these people and most importantly never pay them a nickel. Once you do, you are in essence stating the debt (was) is yours and the data becomes (current) and they will insert the derogatory information into your credit files. Once that’s done you can’t get it removed.

Second, never pay a collection agency a nickel, until you get what you want. If you agree to pay them, get it in writing the ACCOUNT will be removed from your credit files. If they don’t agree, get that in writing via email.  At that point you have leverage that they refused to accept full payment on the debt.  And can get it removed from the CRA.’s. Removing information from a credit file is not illegal. A company’s policy is in play here and the question remains..    Do they want the money or do they just want to punish you even AFTER you paid them for doing their job.

[legacys7]

Thanks for the reply. That's the same conclusion that I'd came to. But what has me puzzled is them asking me about another company that attempted to call me. I told her no, that I'm not familiar with them and asked why. Again, her reply was, "just wondering. It's a company within our company." It didn't sound right to me. Sounds more like another collection that are attempting to collect the same debt. I do know for a fact that another agency had the debt and gave up on it. That particular one, I'm not sure on the date when it was given to them. But. My guess is that it came from them after the company that I'm dealing with now, seeing that they no longer have the account anymore.

[nocreditmaster]

If you do have legit collections activity for a charge-off (within the past seven years) things are different.

If anyone ever contacts you in regard to a debt over seven years, do not speak, correspond or admit the debt is yours. They cannot and will not be able to insert it into your credit files. If you acknowledge or pay them even 25 cents they can, and will.

As for collections, don’t pay them unless you get want you want.  I’ve read on many of these forums where people ASK collection agencies for PFD. Don’t ask, tell them.  If you can make the full payment TELL them they will never see it without removal of the account as well as any other accounts associated with the collection action.  Company policy not to remove an account is one thing, as a matter of law they can’t (REFUSE full payment for a debt they are in business to COLLECT).  If they do… contact the OC and tell them you offered to pay the account in full and the CA refused to do so. 

That’s when things get real interesting, real fast….  OC’s PAY CA’s to collect money for them. Once they know offers for full payments for debt are not being accepted things happen swiftly to your advantage. Use it.

[guiness56]

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@nocreditmaster wrote:

A word of CAUTION…   the debt from the 90’s is a junk bond company that bought your debt for pennies. They will chase you forever and they will not go away. DO NOT even talk with these people and most importantly never pay them a nickel. Once you do, you are in essence stating the debt (was) is yours and the data becomes (current) and they will insert the derogatory information into your credit files. Once that’s done you can’t get it removed.

Second, never pay a collection agency a nickel, until you get what you want. If you agree to pay them, get it in writing the ACCOUNT will be removed from your credit files. If they don’t agree, get that in writing via email.  At that point you have leverage that they refused to accept full payment on the debt.  And can get it removed from the CRA.’s. Removing information from a credit file is not illegal. A company’s policy is in play here and the question remains..    Do they want the money or do they just want to punish you even AFTER you paid them for doing their job.

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A debt from the 90's can NEVER be inserted on your CR legally.   Even if you did pay it, it would NOT make it current.  All it could possibly do is restart the suing SOL and that has nothing to do with it being reported. 

Just because a CA will not accept full payment for a deletion is not cause to have it removed from your CR.  They do not have to delete the TL.

[RobertEG]

I think it is questionable to advise one never to pay a debt simply because it is old or based on who is attempting to collect on it.

If the debt is legit, payment clears the consumer of unpaid, delinquent debt that might be discovered or need to be disclosed in future credit app processes.

Presence of unpaid delinquent debt can, in and of itself, kill a future request for credit.  CR exclusion makes the unpaid debt harder to discover, but does not negate the debt.   There is, in my opinion, potential benefit to paying legitimate debt.

If a collection is past CR its exclusion period, there is no issue of it properly being included in to the consumer's credit report, as the controlling date for CR exclusion is the DOFD on the OC account, not any dealings with the debt collector. 

If another debt collector calls, I would simply inform them that you need their required dunning notice prior to any discussion with them.  Their call would trigger requirement to send dunning notice within 5 days of that initial communication, and would be paper basis for contacting debt collector 1 and asking how they can have active collection authority if another is also actively asserting authority.  Paying when another debt collector is also asserting authority can lead to a mess, as debt collector 2 can ignore payment to debt collector 1 if authority no longer resides them.  I would first make them inform you of who has the actual authority.

However, that has not actually happened, so I would rely on the representation of authority stated by debt collector 1, and pay them.

[nocreditmaster]

You’re correct on the legally part, but they do it anyway. You can get it removed easily. But if you pay them, it resets the date of last activity (on their accounts as a debt collection agency) The debt with them is current as they have recently purchased (a 20 year old debt) and it shows up as a paid in full collections account. Been there, done that and didn’t even get a t-shirt. I did get it removed eventually but in the meantime my credit suffered a major hit. Legal or not is not the question. The point is they did it anyway and caused problems for me.

You’re correct on the second part as well, but you have a legit claim that (company policy) is interfering with the actual collection of debt. While we look at this on a one on one basis, it’s not much at all. But when a CC company has tens and thousands of debts that may be being refused by the agency they use to collect it, they act quickly and it worked for me every time.

 At least from my experience I have never paid on any collection account without complete removal of the account. In fact I was the one that contacted them when I had the money. When I disputed with the CRA’s that they refused full payment, (had written documentation from the CA emails stating this fact) It was verified, by the CA. At that point it was removed, but they managed to get it back on a few months later.  In fact the same week of reinsertion,  CA sent  me a letter to tell me that if I pay in full it will be removed from all three CRA’s .  Which I did and they did.

I’m not suggesting that you never pay your debts. My point in all this is you have what they want (money) they have what you want (removal).   I paid all of the collections (7) of them in full (no payment plan ) because I did owe the debt. But I would not do it only to have a “paid” collections account in my credit files. I stood my ground that they be removed for full payment, and all of CA’s did remove them.

[guiness56]

Legal or not is the point.  A debt over 7.5 years old cannot be legally entered on your CR.  It is against the FCRA and any CA that does that is facing serious violations and law suits.

No, paying a debt does not reset anything.  If the debt is paid there is no suing SOL.  DOLA has nothing to do with when something is removed from your CR.

[nocreditmaster]

LEGAL OR NOT IS THE POINT!

You’re going on the assumption of law and that the law is made of milk and honey and each and every junk bond or collection agency or credit grantor sips them for breakfast in the company lounge before heading for the desk. The truth is there are rouge egotistical debt recovery firms and managers that want to put collection numbers on the board at the cost of unsuspecting people. That’s what happened to me.

From a business perspective that will do it. When they inserted my info to the CRA from a debt they purchased from 1991, it was dated the day I had TALKED to them on the phone. When I found out about it via TU, I called them and they said we must have put in the incorrect date. Please dispute it with the CRA and it will most likely be removed. THEY would not notify the CRA, I had too all the work.  

Fine, I did that and it was removed after the dispute. But the fact remains, I (you) suffered at the hands of these upstanding pillars of the financial community.  You can’t sue them or file a lawsuit for a mistake they admit too that lasted 60 days and had a negative impact on a score number.  Had I never spoke to them it would have never happened. That’s my point.