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Valued Contributor
rckstrscott
Posts: 2,659
Registered: ‎04-25-2011

DOFD difference on collection AND judgement for same debt.

Okay -- at this stage I am fighting tooth and nail to remove the final negative entries off my account..

 

I have a judgement for an eviction. The judgement was from October 2008. 

I have a collection from the same event. The DOFD on the collection account is December 2008.

 

If I last paid rent in July of 2008 on this account, is that the DOFD?

 

Even if it isn't, shouldn't the DOFD at the very least be the October 2008 judgement date? When I paid the colleciton company, it satisified the judgement and the collection account at one fell swoop.

 

Are these disputable? 

 

-scott

Starting FICO Score: 10/10: TU 498 | EQ: 502 Current FICO Score(lender pull): 05/12: TU: 722 | EQ: 712 | EX: 686
Collections Removed: Hunter Warfield, CBE Group, Merchants Credit Guide, EOS-CCA, Enhanced Recovery, Portfolio Recovery, UCB, American Collection Company, Medical Business Bureau, Jefferson Capital, Credit Portfolio Associates, FCO, LVNV, Convergent, Armor Systems
Other Negative Entries Removed:Plains Commerce CO, HSBC CO, 2008 Judgment Santander Reposession

Still Working On: Illinois Paid Tax Lien,
Positive Accounts:10/10: 0 | 07/12: 6 | Mortgage Closed 5/12, Macy's AMEX $3900, Citi/Home Depot $2000, Capital One Cash Rewards $1500, Capital One Secured $500, Credit One Bank $500. Total Utilization: 6%. AAoA: 1yr, 7mth. INQS: 8 TU, 8 EQ, 4 EX
Moderator
Shogun
Posts: 12,896
Registered: ‎04-15-2011

Re: DOFD difference on collection AND judgement for same debt.

Actually the DOFD should be August of 2008.  The DOFD should be the first month that the account/rent went into arrears and was never brought back to current with the OC.  I would say it is disputable, but not through the CRAs, I believe it would involve a direct dispute.


Starting Score: 504

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Valued Contributor
rckstrscott
Posts: 2,659
Registered: ‎04-25-2011

Re: DOFD difference on collection AND judgement for same debt.


Shogun wrote:

Actually the DOFD should be August of 2008.  The DOFD should be the first month that the account/rent went into arrears and was never brought back to current with the OC.  I would say it is disputable, but not through the CRAs, I believe it would involve a direct dispute.


This is a more high level question but maybe RobertEG could chime in, I would like to get your opinion Shogun as well. Or anyone for that matter.

 

So I have done a direct dispute with the collection company, Fair Collections and Outsourcing.. I disputed the DOFD with them directly, and they dismissed the dispute as 'validated' and their DOFD as accurate.

 

I have paid the obligatory fee to Equifax, and confirmed the DOFD they are listed on their report is Decemeber of 2008

 

I have legal paperwork that shows the Default Judgement happened on Oct 15th, 2008.

 

Isn't this a clear cut FCRA violation? I have evidence showing the DOFD of this debt is Oct 2012 (at the least), and they are reporting this as December 2008.

 

By disputing, and them validating and dismissing my dispute, the can no longer claim they didn't knowingly report the wrong DOFD, because had they verified with the OC, they should have been able to get the correct date... am I off base?

 

What is my next step on this?

 

Thanks!

-scott

Starting FICO Score: 10/10: TU 498 | EQ: 502 Current FICO Score(lender pull): 05/12: TU: 722 | EQ: 712 | EX: 686
Collections Removed: Hunter Warfield, CBE Group, Merchants Credit Guide, EOS-CCA, Enhanced Recovery, Portfolio Recovery, UCB, American Collection Company, Medical Business Bureau, Jefferson Capital, Credit Portfolio Associates, FCO, LVNV, Convergent, Armor Systems
Other Negative Entries Removed:Plains Commerce CO, HSBC CO, 2008 Judgment Santander Reposession

Still Working On: Illinois Paid Tax Lien,
Positive Accounts:10/10: 0 | 07/12: 6 | Mortgage Closed 5/12, Macy's AMEX $3900, Citi/Home Depot $2000, Capital One Cash Rewards $1500, Capital One Secured $500, Credit One Bank $500. Total Utilization: 6%. AAoA: 1yr, 7mth. INQS: 8 TU, 8 EQ, 4 EX
Moderator
Shogun
Posts: 12,896
Registered: ‎04-15-2011

Re: DOFD difference on collection AND judgement for same debt.

I see where you're headed with this, and yes I do agree with you.  They would not be able to use the simple, oops, we didn't know excuse.  I too would be interested to see RobertEG's thoughts on this one, it's right up his alley.


Starting Score: 504

July 2013 score: EQ FICO 819, TU08 778, EX "806 lender pull 07/26/2013
Goal Score: All Scores 760+, Newest goal 800+

Take the myFICO Fitness Challenge

Current scores after adding $81K in CLs and 2 new cars since July 2013
EQ:809 TU 777 EX 790 Now it's just garden time!
Contributor
Blackhawks_girl30
Posts: 81
Registered: ‎05-18-2012

Re: DOFD difference on collection AND judgement for same debt.

I hope you have a case and get $1k out of FCO!!  This is my last baddie left on my report and man are they a bad company.  Good luck and I really hope you get these off of your report!!

Mega Contributor
RobertEG
Posts: 17,456
Registered: ‎03-19-2007

Re: DOFD difference on collection AND judgement for same debt.

[ Edited ]

The actual DOFD would be based upon whatever the lease agreement specified as the date a payment was due, and concurrent amount due at that time.

If the payment was either late or not for the required amount, that is the date of commencement of the most recent delinquency.   So date of last payment, eviction,judgment, etc, does not fix the DOFD.

If, at any point after the first delinquency, the account was paid back into agreed status, a new DOFD is triggered if and when the account again becomes delinquent.

Those are the proofs, regardless of what was reported, of factual DOFD.  Your records.

 

The debt collector was required, upon reporting of their collection, to provide the DOFD on the OC account to the CRA within 90 days after their reporting. 

Since they were not the party with which any delinquency occured, FCRA 623(a)(5) sets forth procedures they must follow to obtain the DOFD on the OC account.

 

The first way is by simply pulling your CR and seeing if the OC had previiously reported a DOFD to the CRA.  If they had, they are the source, and the debt collector is required to report that same date.  I presume from the post that no OC reporting is of record, so step two kicks in.

 

They were then required to contact the OC and attempt to get the DOFD from the horse's mouth.  Whatever was provided by the OC, if anything, then becomes their required reporting.  It appears impossible to say from the facts provided whether that was done, and thus whether they complied with that requirement.

 

Assuming they did attempt to get the DOFD from the OC, but those attempts were unsuccesful, section 623(a)(5) them permits them to make their best estimate of the OC account, but in no event can they report a DOFD that is later than the date they received collection authority.

 

Apparently, as a result of a 609(a)(1) request to the CRA, they stated that the debt collector reported a DOFD of 12/2008.  Whether that date is a violation of the FCRA depends upon how they arrived at that date, not its factual accuracy.  If it is incorrect, and yet they complied with section 623(a)(5) in arriving at that date, it is not a knowing violation, and if factual records establish it to be incorrrect, can simply be corrected without an issue of violation of the FCRA,

 

I am not sure that there is evidence of any willful misreporting.  The issue of correctness is a factual issue that must be resolved by one authorized to do so.

That party is not the CRA.  Neither of the dispute processes compel factual resolution of differences.  A dispute, whether direct or via the CRA, compels the furnisher to investigate the accuracy of the reported information, and convey their determination either to the consumer or to the CRA.  Proof is not required, as ther is no "CRA court" to hear and resolve factual differences of opinion.

If dispute verification has been provided, that is their attestation that they have conducted a reasonable investigation, and confirm that they have sufficient documentation to verify its accuracy.  To compel that they produce that documentation is beyond the dispute process.  That is what the courts are for.

 

As an aside, it appears that a correct DOFD of 10/2012 is being asserted?  I dont understand why one would want to assert a later DOFD, or how that could be accurate?

 

 

Valued Contributor
rckstrscott
Posts: 2,659
Registered: ‎04-25-2011

Re: DOFD difference on collection AND judgement for same debt.


RobertEG wrote:

The actual DOFD would be based upon whatever the lease agreement specified as the date a payment was due, and concurrent amount due at that time.

If the payment was either late or not for the required amount, that is the date of commencement of the most recent delinquency.   So date of last payment, eviction,judgment, etc, does not fix the DOFD.

If, at any point after the first delinquency, the account was paid back into agreed status, a new DOFD is triggered if and when the account again becomes delinquent.

Those are the proofs, regardless of what was reported, of factual DOFD.  Your records.

 

The debt collector was required, upon reporting of their collection, to provide the DOFD on the OC account to the CRA within 90 days after their reporting. 

Since they were not the party with which any delinquency occured, FCRA 623(a)(5) sets forth procedures they must follow to obtain the DOFD on the OC account.

 

The first way is by simply pulling your CR and seeing if the OC had previiously reported a DOFD to the CRA.  If they had, they are the source, and the debt collector is required to report that same date.  I presume from the post that no OC reporting is of record, so step two kicks in.

 

They were then required to contact the OC and attempt to get the DOFD from the horse's mouth.  Whatever was provided by the OC, if anything, then becomes their required reporting.  It appears impossible to say from the facts provided whether that was done, and thus whether they complied with that requirement.

 

Assuming they did attempt to get the DOFD from the OC, but those attempts were unsuccesful, section 623(a)(5) them permits them to make their best estimate of the OC account, but in no event can they report a DOFD that is later than the date they received collection authority.

 

Apparently, as a result of a 609(a)(1) request to the CRA, they stated that the debt collector reported a DOFD of 12/2008.  Whether that date is a violation of the FCRA depends upon how they arrived at that date, not its factual accuracy.  If it is incorrect, and yet they complied with section 623(a)(5) in arriving at that date, it is not a knowing violation, and if factual records establish it to be incorrrect, can simply be corrected without an issue of violation of the FCRA,

 

I am not sure that there is evidence of any willful misreporting.  The issue of correctness is a factual issue that must be resolved by one authorized to do so.

That party is not the CRA.  Neither of the dispute processes compel factual resolution of differences.  A dispute, whether direct or via the CRA, compels the furnisher to investigate the accuracy of the reported information, and convey their determination either to the consumer or to the CRA.  Proof is not required, as ther is no "CRA court" to hear and resolve factual differences of opinion.

If dispute verification has been provided, that is their attestation that they have conducted a reasonable investigation, and confirm that they have sufficient documentation to verify its accuracy.  To compel that they produce that documentation is beyond the dispute process.  That is what the courts are for.

 

As an aside, it appears that a correct DOFD of 10/2012 is being asserted?  I dont understand why one would want to assert a later DOFD, or how that could be accurate?

 

 


Okay.. I understand what you are saying. I last paid the rent in July 2008. So August 2008 is concrete as the DOFD. I didn't pay, they sued me, evicted me, won a judgement and then sent it to collections.

 

Now, here is where I am a little puzzled.. 

 

Home Properties LP is the company that sued and won, the landloard property management. FCO is the collection company.

 

When I DVed this debt to FCO. They sent me a MESSLOAD of stuff, including itemized invoice with all fees, including what they were billing me for (like missed rent in Sept through Dec when they rented the place), and the lease agreement w signature . The invoice CLEARLY shows my last payment as July 2008. Since Home Properties LP sent them this itemized information, couldn't one say the knowingly reported the wrong date, since they have the information in their possession?

 

They have listed the DOFD as December 2008 which is wrong. They have sent me itemized information that anyone with brain can figure out when the DOFD is. When I disputed, they didn't even investigate.

 

Is this still an iffy violation, if at all?

 

Second question: what can I do to get that date correct? We all know months mean money in interest and I don't want a later DOFD showing.

 

-scott

Starting FICO Score: 10/10: TU 498 | EQ: 502 Current FICO Score(lender pull): 05/12: TU: 722 | EQ: 712 | EX: 686
Collections Removed: Hunter Warfield, CBE Group, Merchants Credit Guide, EOS-CCA, Enhanced Recovery, Portfolio Recovery, UCB, American Collection Company, Medical Business Bureau, Jefferson Capital, Credit Portfolio Associates, FCO, LVNV, Convergent, Armor Systems
Other Negative Entries Removed:Plains Commerce CO, HSBC CO, 2008 Judgment Santander Reposession

Still Working On: Illinois Paid Tax Lien,
Positive Accounts:10/10: 0 | 07/12: 6 | Mortgage Closed 5/12, Macy's AMEX $3900, Citi/Home Depot $2000, Capital One Cash Rewards $1500, Capital One Secured $500, Credit One Bank $500. Total Utilization: 6%. AAoA: 1yr, 7mth. INQS: 8 TU, 8 EQ, 4 EX
Mega Contributor
RobertEG
Posts: 17,456
Registered: ‎03-19-2007

Re: DOFD difference on collection AND judgement for same debt.

Once disputed, they are required to conduct a "reasonable investigation," and based upon that investigation, either verify the accuracy, correct their reporting, or delete the disputed information.

 

They are not required to provide documentation or prove their determination of accuracy.  But it must be a reasonable determination supported by some documentation.

If they chose to provide documentation that either does not support their determination, or worse yet, appears to directly contradict their determination, that issue needs to get before a party authorized to review the facts and make a ruling.  The CRA dispute process ends with their determination, right or wrong.

 

At this point, in my opinion, you need to get it before a judge with authority to rule on the facts.

 


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