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Valued Member
IMPROVELIFE
Posts: 58
Registered: ‎11-04-2010
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Debt Validation Questions

[ Edited ]

Hi all, I am in the process of rebuilding my credit as I stated in previous post. I sent out 10 letters to CA's CMRR, out of the 10, I have received all but 1 green card; Ok the letters that I sent to most were DV letters. For a few others I sent out letters advising the CA's to delete tradeline(s) off of my CR becasue they have deleted them off of one of the other CRA's files; In regards to the DV letters, I only received 1 response. The CA sent a copy of a "Customer Ledger" which breaks down the the amount that I owe (yes the debt is mine); They also provided me with what they call a "Customer Maintenance" form. This form supposedly shows the work order with the service address (my old address). They also provided the OC (Cox) and the acct number. The CA is reporting twice on my CR, one for the service ($388) and the other for the equipment ($683). When I sent the DV I did not combine the information in one letter, I sent 2 seperate letters however in their response, they bundled all the info. My question is, what can I do about this issue? My goal is to get it removed w/ out paying it :smileyhappy: The CA did not provide a signed agreement as requested neither did the CA provide proof that they are licensed to collect in my state. What should my next move be?

 

 


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RobertEG
Posts: 18,505
Registered: ‎03-19-2007
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Re: Debt Validation Questions

[ Edited ]
I am really unsure of what you expect from a DV letter.
First, a DV request from you requries no response on the part of a debt collector, ever.  It is not a letter that pertains to credit reporting under the FCRA,.  All it does is to requrie them to cease further collection activities until such time as they may choose to respond.  No debt collector has to provide, under FDCPA 809(b),  legal proof of their collection authority though the DV process.  All they are legally requried to do is to provide you the name, and if requested, the address of the original creditor, and their statement of the current amount of the debt they are collecting. Legal documentation is not requried.  They dont have to prove state  registration as a debt collector.  They dont have to provide OC account documents. They are not the OC, and are not expected to have, or provide, them
Debt collectors have absolutely no authorty to delete any reporting of accounts (trade lines) or any prior reproting done by an original creditor.  They did not report it, and thus cant delete it.
All they can agree to delete is the reporting of their collection account with the CRA. Trade line deletion of an OC account is between you and the OC.
The fact that they may have deleted prior reporting to one CRA does not require them to delete from all CRAs,
I suggest that you focus on the accuracy of information that is currently posted in your CR.  If you dispute owing the debt, or have grounds for disputing drogs and delinquencies posted in your CR, then you dispute the information posted in your CR, either by disputing through the intermediary of the CRA under FCRA 611(a), or disputing directly with the party who posted the disputed information, under the direct dispute process of FCRA 623(a)(8).  They require your presentation of evidene of inaccuracy.
DV is not a credit reporting  or dispute resolution process.  It is a debt collection practices process.
Valued Member
IMPROVELIFE
Posts: 58
Registered: ‎11-04-2010
0

Re: Debt Validation Questions

Aaah. I think I understand.  I read so many post and sample DV letters. The letters always asked the CA/DC(credit agency/debt collector) to validate by sending proof that they own the debt and original signed paperwork, and proof they are licensed in that state etc, so I assumed this was correct.  But if I understand you correctly RobertEG you are stating that they do not have to prove any of those things. Yikes.... If thats the case, I think they validated then   :smileysad:   They (CA/DC) did not however provide the address and telephone number as I stated in the DV letter, should I rewrite asking them for that info?  From what I have gathered by reading and researching, people send DV's to CA/DC because majority of the time they can not validate, therefore they have to delete.   Is this not correct? Also, can you please let me know where you find the laws/info for FCRA & FDCPA? Thanks so much for your patience and time.


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MarineVietVet
Posts: 14,953
Registered: ‎07-14-2009
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Re: Debt Validation Questions


IMPROVELIFE wrote:

Aaah. I think I understand.  I read so many post and sample DV letters. The letters always asked the CA/DC(credit agency/debt collector) to validate by sending proof that they own the debt and original signed paperwork, and proof they are licensed in that state etc, so I assumed this was correct.  But if I understand you correctly RobertEG you are stating that they do not have to prove any of those things. Yikes.... If thats the case, I think they validated then   :smileysad:   They (CA/DC) did not however provide the address and telephone number as I stated in the DV letter, should I rewrite asking them for that info?  From what I have gathered by reading and researching, people send DV's to CA/DC because majority of the time they can not validate, therefore they have to delete.   Is this not correct? Also, can you please let me know where you find the laws/info for FCRA & FDCPA? Thanks so much for your patience and time.


FCRA

FDCPA

 

Let me know if these links don't work.

 

 

 

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Valued Member
IMPROVELIFE
Posts: 58
Registered: ‎11-04-2010
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Re: Debt Validation Questions

 OOh OOh OOOh, Marinevietvet, you are TOOOO good to me.  Thank you so much!  Gotta go research some answers  :smileyhappy:  THANKS AGAIN!!!!


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Senior Contributor
O6
Posts: 3,626
Registered: ‎10-13-2009
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Re: Debt Validation Questions


RobertEG wrote:
I am really unsure of what you expect from a DV letter.
First, a DV request from you requries no response on the part of a debt collector, ever.  It is not a letter that pertains to credit reporting under the FCRA,.  All it does is to requrie them to cease further collection activities until such time as they may choose to respond.  No debt collector has to provide, under FDCPA 809(b),  legal proof of their collection authority though the DV process.  All they are legally requried to do is to provide you the name, and if requested, the address of the original creditor, and their statement of the current amount of the debt they are collecting. Legal documentation is not requried.  They dont have to prove state  registration as a debt collector.  They dont have to provide OC account documents. They are not the OC, and are not expected to have, or provide, them
Debt collectors have absolutely no authorty to delete any reporting of accounts (trade lines) or any prior reproting done by an original creditor.  They did not report it, and thus cant delete it.
All they can agree to delete is the reporting of their collection account with the CRA. Trade line deletion of an OC account is between you and the OC.
The fact that they may have deleted prior reporting to one CRA does not require them to delete from all CRAs,
I suggest that you focus on the accuracy of information that is currently posted in your CR.  If you dispute owing the debt, or have grounds for disputing drogs and delinquencies posted in your CR, then you dispute the information posted in your CR, either by disputing through the intermediary of the CRA under FCRA 611(a), or disputing directly with the party who posted the disputed information, under the direct dispute process of FCRA 623(a)(8).  They require your presentation of evidene of inaccuracy.
DV is not a credit reporting  or dispute resolution process.  It is a debt collection practices process.

Very accurate analysis.

 

All the DV letters you find out on the Internet requesting "full media validation" and all sorts of documentation are bogus and lame.

IAALBNYL
Valued Member
IMPROVELIFE
Posts: 58
Registered: ‎11-04-2010
0

Re: Debt Validation Questions

  Ok, vets. Let me break this down just a little bit more so that I can understand what you all are saying.  Ok, so one CA "Validated".  They sent a few pages of info. The first page includes the original creditors name, address, acct number and the dollar amount owed, all on the companys (CA) letterhead; The 2nd page has "customer maintenance" on the very top and has my name along w/ my old address and phone number.  This is supposed to show that the service was done @ my home. The 3rd and 4th pages include info about the service including dates. Looks like it stars w/ a beginning balance of $565.72 on 5/30/07 and right under that it starts w/ a different date 5/2/07; it breaks down the charges and so forth, this however is not on company letterhead; Is this considered validating? If so I'll send a PFD letter to the CA. If I need to send a letter, what amount should I offer to PFD for? Maybe 25%? Next and last question for now is if I do a PFD for a certain percentage and the CA agrees etc.... will they be able to take me to court for the remaining balance? From the paperwork they sent me, the SOL is up in 5/2011?


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RobertEG
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Registered: ‎03-19-2007
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Re: Debt Validation Questions

[ Edited ]

It is NOT correct that if a debt collector cannot, or chooses to not, "validate," then they must delete prior credit reporting.  There is no such provision under the FCRA or FDCPA.

I have no idea where that fantasy comes from.  Maybe a lame comparison to the dispute processess under the FCRA, but that does not apply to the FDCPA.

In fact, if a debt collector does not validate, they have no obligation to tell you that they cant.  They can just exchange their lack of validation action for ther lack of ability under FDCPA 809(b) to furtther conduct active.collection activities with you.

But that does not extend to their ability, even with lack of prior FDCPA 809(b) validation, to bring legal action.  Lack of DV response does not preclude then from bringing legal action. Both the courts and the FTC have held that legal action before the courts is not prohibited debt collection activities with the consumer under FDCAP 809(b).

 

Senior Contributor
O6
Posts: 3,626
Registered: ‎10-13-2009
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Re: Debt Validation Questions

[ Edited ]

 


RobertEG wrote:

It is NOT correct that if a debt collector cannot, or chooses to not, "validate," then they must delete prior credit reporting.  There is no such provision under the FCRA or FDCPA.

I have no idea where that fantasy comes from.  Maybe a lame comparison to the dispute processess under the FCRA, but that does not apply to the FDCPA.

In fact, if a debt collector does not validate, they have no obligation to tell you that they cant.  They can just exchange their lack of validation action for ther lack of ability under FDCPA 809(b) to furtther conduct active.collection activities with you.

But that does not extend to their ability, even with lack of prior FDCPA 809(b) validation, to bring legal action.  Lack of DV response does not preclude then from bringing legal action. Both the courts and the FTC have held that legal action before the courts is not prohibited debt collection activities with the consumer under FDCAP 809(b).

 


 

 

Actually, they cannot bring legal action against you unless they respond to a timely interposed DV.  Bringing legal action to collect a debt has been deemed "collection activity," prohibited until a DV response has been made.  The key here is that the DV must have been timely made.  This has been addressed both in FTC advisories and in court decisions.

 

In fact, some jurisdictions have even gone so far as to require mini-Mirandas printed on all court papers served regarding consumer debt.

 

The actual summons itself is not a "collection activity" but the verified complaint, without which there can usually be no lawsuit initiated, is. 

 

 

IAALBNYL
Senior Contributor
O6
Posts: 3,626
Registered: ‎10-13-2009
0

Re: Debt Validation Questions

 


IMPROVELIFE wrote:

  Ok, vets. Let me break this down just a little bit more so that I can understand what you all are saying.  Ok, so one CA "Validated".  They sent a few pages of info. The first page includes the original creditors name, address, acct number and the dollar amount owed, all on the companys (CA) letterhead; The 2nd page has "customer maintenance" on the very top and has my name along w/ my old address and phone number.  This is supposed to show that the service was done @ my home. The 3rd and 4th pages include info about the service including dates. Looks like it stars w/ a beginning balance of $565.72 on 5/30/07 and right under that it starts w/ a different date 5/2/07; it breaks down the charges and so forth, this however is not on company letterhead; Is this considered validating? If so I'll send a PFD letter to the CA. If I need to send a letter, what amount should I offer to PFD for? Maybe 25%? Next and last question for now is if I do a PFD for a certain percentage and the CA agrees etc.... will they be able to take me to court for the remaining balance? From the paperwork they sent me, the SOL is up in 5/2011?


 

Yes, what they provided seems to be a proper DV response -- even more than what they were required to provide.  All they are required to do is obtain the information and then repackage it and provide it to you.  That they even provided page 2 is an extra added bonus.

 

If you offer a PFD and they accept that should be in general satisfaction of the whole debt.  Make sure that you point out clearly in your offer that the amount offered is not only PFD, but in total satisfaction of the alleged debt. 

 

As for what percentage to offer them, I think it would depend on exactly how old the debt is.  You mentioned that the SOL still has another 6 months or so to run, so 25% may not be attractive to them.  Still, try and expect they'll come up with a counter-offer.

IAALBNYL

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