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Established Contributor
tonyjones
Posts: 528
Registered: ‎04-22-2013
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Re: Experience with Portfolio Recovery Associates?


Downto0 wrote:

I usually write the dv like a regular letter...(1) my return adress (2) the date (3) collector's address (4) RE: dispute (5) salutation (6) body of letter (7) sincerely (8) my typed name.  I never sign.  What would be the purpose? 

 

I usually say that I dispute the debt you referred to in your letter dated ####.  I don't give them the account number because there are usually at least two different account numbers after the JDB gets the account, the OC's and the JDB's.  Which would you use?  Anyway, they wrote you.  They know who you are and which accounts belongs to you. 

 

They'll figure it out. Giving the JDB bare bones information is a way of seeing if they do know who you are.  How do you know if some disgruntled PRA employees didn't run off with a bunch of accounts and are surreptitiously collecting for themselves? 


What do you recommend me doing with PRA since it's passed SOL, it's been DV'd and I do owe it.


Gardening from July 2014 ... to September 2016
      
Regular Contributor
Downto0
Posts: 111
Registered: ‎11-01-2011
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Re: Experience with Portfolio Recovery Associates?

 

I sent DV to PRA they returned it with all valid information and statements showing that the account was mine, they are very meticulous. The account with them was sold to them from Capital One and is now passed SOL. I sent many emails and physical letters for PFD but they have yet to return one. I might just end up calling them and asking for a PFD through that.

 

The CRAs are required to keep delinquent accounts on your credit report for 7 1/2 years.  The sol in many states is less than that.  So, a debt being sol does not usually equate a removal of the tl from your cr.  The clock starts ticking on the last payment you missed and never brought the account current again. The CRAs usually list that date as something like "Date of First Delinquency", or something similar.  The CRAs generally say when a delinquent account will be deleted from your account. 

 

I seriously doubt if PRA actually sent you valid dv.  They probably did with you what they do with all of us, they simply reached in the file they already had and brought up a last statement of account, or something similar, and paraded this document as dv.  DV requires that the collector contact the OC to verify that the amount they are trying to collect is the right amount.  It does not take much but it must come from the OC after you ask for dv.  They cannot simply use what they already have because the purpose of dv is to make sure that what the collector already has is itself correct. 

 

FTC Wollmand letter:

 

The statute requires that the debt collector obtain verification of the debt and mail it to the

consumer (emphasis mine). Because one of the principal purposes of this Section is to help

consumers who have been misidentified by the debt collector or who dispute the amount of

the debt, it is important that the verification of the identity of the consumer and the amount

of the debt be obtained directly from the creditor. Mere itemization of what the debt

collector already has does not accomplish this purpose. As stated above, the statute requires

the debt collector, not the creditor, to mail the verification to the consumer.

 

http://www.ftc.gov/os/statutes/fdcpa/letters/wollman.htm

Regular Contributor
Downto0
Posts: 111
Registered: ‎11-01-2011
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Re: Experience with Portfolio Recovery Associates?

What do you recommend me doing with PRA since it's passed SOL, it's been DV'd and I do owe it.

 

You don't really need to do anything if you don't want to because PRA can no longer collect the debt via the court system.  That's was their biggest club.  All they can do now is just pester you.  A C&D will stop all that.  A C&D is forever.  They might start contacting you a couple of years after the C&D and you can sue them like I did.

 

You can still dispute the tl.  Who has the tl listed?  Sometimes both the JDB and the OC list their own trade line for the same debt.  I'd dispute either or both if they both list a tl.  The OC probably will respond but PRA probably won't answer but you should look at your cr to see if they did list their tl as disputed.  Sometimes they do and other times they don't.  If they don't list their tl as disputed then they just violated the FDCPA and the FCRA.  However, there is no private right of action for the FCRA violation but you do have proa for the FDCPA violation. 

 

The simple fact is that the FDCPA depends upon consumers to bring lawsuits against collectors as a way to punish the unethical collectors.  There are no FDCPA police who actively enforce the FDCPA...just consumers filing complaints.  So, don't feel like you are taking the law into your own hands when you look for violations because Congress wanted it this way.

Established Contributor
tonyjones
Posts: 528
Registered: ‎04-22-2013
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Re: Experience with Portfolio Recovery Associates?


Downto0 wrote:

What do you recommend me doing with PRA since it's passed SOL, it's been DV'd and I do owe it.

 

You don't really need to do anything if you don't want to because PRA can no longer collect the debt via the court system.  That's was their biggest club.  All they can do now is just pester you.  A C&D will stop all that.  A C&D is forever.  They might start contacting you a couple of years after the C&D and you can sue them like I did.

 

You can still dispute the tl.  Who has the tl listed?  Sometimes both the JDB and the OC list their own trade line for the same debt.  I'd dispute either or both if they both list a tl.  The OC probably will respond but PRA probably won't answer but you should look at your cr to see if they did list their tl as disputed.  Sometimes they do and other times they don't.  If they don't list their tl as disputed then they just violated the FDCPA and the FCRA.  However, there is no private right of action for the FCRA violation but you do have proa for the FDCPA violation. 

 

The simple fact is that the FDCPA depends upon consumers to bring lawsuits against collectors as a way to punish the unethical collectors.  There are no FDCPA police who actively enforce the FDCPA...just consumers filing complaints.  So, don't feel like you are taking the law into your own hands when you look for violations because Congress wanted it this way.


The trade line is listed both times from the OC (CapOne as a charge off) and the JDB (PRA as collection). I've disputed it numerous times on CRA and all times both came back as valid.

 

I know I don't have to pay it but I'm trying to rebuild credit and need to get it removed or showed that it is paid off, lenders don't like it when things aren't settled/paid.


Gardening from July 2014 ... to September 2016
      
Member
spectremi
Posts: 18
Registered: ‎08-06-2013
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Re: Experience with Portfolio Recovery Associates?

Got my DV reply back, does this constitute a legit enough reply? One thing I ntoiced is they gave me only for a little bit longer to reply back with what more information they needed to provide me or they will consider my dispute closed. It wasn't even 30 days :smileysad: If anyone has any pointers of what I can reply back with, I kinda need to know ASAP... Information has been redacted or changed just to keep it anonymous. The dates are totally random too.
Regular Contributor
Downto0
Posts: 111
Registered: ‎11-01-2011
0

Re: Experience with Portfolio Recovery Associates?

Well, this is on PRA's letterhead so it's obviously something they did themselves.  There is nothing in the document which says that they sent for verification from the creditor nor is there any apparent involvement by the creditor.  If you remember, or are willing to read back, I posted a FTC opinion letter which states that the collector can not use what it already has for verification. 

 

Their time frame for you to answer in order to preserve your right to continue the dispute has no legal support that I can think of.  It's just something they made up themselves.  However, I would answer but I would not worry about the self imposed deadline. 

 

I would tell them that I don't see where they sent for verification as what they sent is on their own letter head.  I would mention the FTC letter.  I would mention that the FDCPA says that they must obtain verification...not to sort through their own file and find something that looks legit.  I would tell them that I expect clear assignment of the debt which would require something from the OC, and a copy of the pertinent contract which was in effect at the time of default. These are things they don't have to do for verification but they will have to produce in court if they do sue and it will give PRA a heads up that you will be one tough cookie. 

 

The hope is that they will let your debt fall to the bottom of the pile and forget about you until the sol has passed.  They can always sue but do they really want to spend money on a case they can't win without paying more money for authentic assignment from the OC?  Maybe, but not likely.

 

I can't remember if you said they listed their tl as disputed, or not.  If they have not then I would keep my eye on my cr to see if they do list it as disputed.  If they don't then you have a clear violation of the FDCPA for your counter claims if they sue or you will have a FDCPA claim if you decided to sue them. 

 

I'd start preparing my affirmative defenses and counter claims just in case they decide to sue once they receive your renewed dispute. 

New Visitor
jack2
Posts: 1
Registered: ‎09-29-2013
0

Re: Experience with Portfolio Recovery Associates?

This was an old debt I thought I wasn't going to have to pay. I guess I will now have to pay this credit card debt.
New Visitor
penpen72
Posts: 2
Registered: ‎10-15-2013
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Re: Experience with Portfolio Recovery Associates?

I live in Missouri and just received a letter today from a lawyer in St Louis on behalf of PRA. Says they'll proceed with suit against me if I don't dispute the validity of the debt. The debt is 3 years old. I am wondering what I should do. I am also pretty sure I have never received anything from PRA.
New Visitor
penpen72
Posts: 2
Registered: ‎10-15-2013
0

Re: Experience with Portfolio Recovery Associates?

Oh and the lawyer seems to specialize in representing old debt buyers.
Regular Contributor
Downto0
Posts: 111
Registered: ‎11-01-2011
0

Re: Experience with Portfolio Recovery Associates?

Generally, by the time a JDB gets a debt it's gone through several collection attempts.  The JDB, then, starts with the first letter threatening litigation because it works.  If they don't get a response then they usually do sue.  They expect a default judgment because if you won't ask for validation then you also likely won't show up in court.

 

JDBs are starting to avoid contact with debtors probably because they've been fined so much due to their inappropriate conduct.  Now they are trying to use attorneys as a shield.  It does not matter that an attorney working for PRA contacted you and not PRA themselves.  It's pretty common knowledge that an attorney representing a JDB makes the JDB liable to their attorney's violations via vicarious liability. 

 

The answer is simple.  Dispute the debt.  It's not hard and it's your right and you should exercise that right.  In addition to disputing the debt, be sure to specifically ask for validation because JDBs must cease their collection activities until they send for validation and send that validation to you.

 

It primarily depends upon how much the debt is and how much trouble they will have collecting it as to whether PRA will sue.  For example, if the debt is for $1,000, or less, and you have asked for validation, they may not sue.  However, if you don't ask for validation, they will sue.

 

Dispute and see what you get.


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