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Valued Contributor
nothingman02
Posts: 1,072
Registered: ‎02-15-2009
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Violations

[ Edited ]

I was wondering, how serious are the following violations;

 

1) Not providing the dunning letter WITHIN 5 days of contact. Say one receives it after a month of initial contact.

 

2) Reporting inaccurately with CRAs.

Ex:  Closed collection a/c with TU - Bal - 95

       Open OTHER a/c with EQ - Bal - 100

       Closed collection a/c with EX - Bal - 95

 

3) Back charging interest when the a/c was with the OC and the OC stopped adding interest. 

Ex: OC stopped adding interest in Jan. Sold the a/c to JDB/CA in december. The JDB/CA adds interest for all those months and starts off their collection with an inflated balance.

 

4) Updating the a/c and balance with the CRAs after inaccurate (no copy of debt from OC) debt validation

 

Do these violations carry any weight at all?

Message Edited by nothingman02 on 04-18-2009 02:17 PM
Moderator Emeritus
llecs
Posts: 32,869
Registered: ‎08-04-2007

Re: Violations


nothingman02 wrote:

I was wondering, how serious are the following violations;

 

1) Not providing the dunning letter WITHIN 5 days of contact. Say one receives it after a month of initial contact.

 

IMO, significant. You'd have to have proof which would show the date of the initial communication (photo of callerID if a call) AND have proof of the dunning letter showing that 5 days past (copy of letter showing a date beyond 5 days and/or postmark of envelope beyond 5 days).

 

2) Reporting inaccurately with CRAs.

Ex:  Closed collection a/c with TU - Bal - 95

       Open OTHER a/c with EQ - Bal - 100

       Closed collection a/c with EX - Bal - 95

 

"Open OTHER" isn't important, IMO. I could be wrong, but I think all CAs listed within EQ are reported as "Open". Technically it is an opened collection. However, your balances you have could be significant if the balance due isn't $100.

 

3) Back charging interest when the a/c was with the OC and the OC stopped adding interest. 

Ex: OC stopped adding interest in Jan. Sold the a/c to JDB/CA in december. The JDB/CA adds interest for all those months and starts off their collection with an inflated balance.

 

They are allowed to charge back interest. Check with your state for specifics on rates, calculations, etc.

 

4) Updating the a/c and balance with the CRAs after inaccurate (no copy of debt from OC) debt validation

 

IMO, report has nothing to do with validation. Two different things (FCRA vs FDCPA). Per the FDCPA, the CA doesn't have to provide anything from the OC.

 

Do these violations carry any weight at all?

Message Edited by nothingman02 on 04-18-2009 02:17 PM

Valued Contributor
nothingman02
Posts: 1,072
Registered: ‎02-15-2009
0

Re: Violations

[ Edited ]
Thanks for the reply llecs. Ive got some more for you though :smileyhappy:

llecs wrote:

1) Not providing the dunning letter WITHIN 5 days of contact. Say one receives it after a month of initial contact.

 

IMO, significant. You'd have to have proof which would show the date of the initial communication (photo of callerID if a call) AND have proof of the dunning letter showing that 5 days past (copy of letter showing a date beyond 5 days and/or postmark of envelope beyond 5 days).

 

CA got the debt from OC in dec and started reporting from X/1/09. (soft pull on 5/5/09) I have a settlement offer letter dated 2/9/09 from AAC (CA) stating ".....based on our phone call we have agreed upon (lying) XXXX amt toward settlement of the a/c....blah.." Nothing else. I DVed them on 12th and received the dunning letter and validation(incomplete) both dated 3/4/09. I sent out second DV on 30/3/09 priority mail RRR and was picked up on 2/4/09.

 

2) Reporting inaccurately with CRAs.

Ex:  Closed collection a/c with TU - Bal - 95

       Open OTHER a/c with EQ - Bal - 100

       Closed collection a/c with EX - Bal - 95

 

"Open OTHER" isn't important, IMO. I could be wrong, but I think all CAs listed within EQ are reported as "Open". Technically it is an opened collection. However, your balances you have could be significant if the balance due isn't $100.

 

I have two collection a/cs. On EQ, in collection a/cs, I have only 1 a/c listed and that is not this one. This one is listed under 'Other'. Apparently there are 3 types of a/c listings on EQ - revolving, installment and other (for charge a/cs like amex). This CA a/c is listed under that 'other' and open.The actual balances are 1855 on TU/EX and 1850 on EQ after updating this month. They corrected and they are all the same now but were not the last two months.

 

3) Back charging interest when the a/c was with the OC and the OC stopped adding interest. 

Ex: OC stopped adding interest in Jan. Sold the a/c to JDB/CA in december. The JDB/CA adds interest for all those months and starts off their collection with an inflated balance.

 

They are allowed to charge back interest. Check with your state for specifics on rates, calculations, etc.

OK. 

 

4) Updating the a/c and balance with the CRAs after inaccurate (no copy of debt from OC) debt validation

 

IMO, report has nothing to do with validation. Two different things (FCRA vs FDCPA). Per the FDCPA, the CA doesn't have to provide anything from the OC.

I though the CA has to provide a copy of the debt or any relevant document from OC. Not required? 

 

Do these violations carry any weight at all? Especially if say, the CA validates the debt? Enough for a judge to make the CA pay me penalties and I of course pay the CA the debt. 


 

Message Edited by nothingman02 on 04-18-2009 05:49 PM
Moderator Emeritus
llecs
Posts: 32,869
Registered: ‎08-04-2007

Re: Violations

 


nothingman02 wrote:
Thanks for the reply llecs. Ive got some more for you though :smileyhappy:

llecs wrote:

1) Not providing the dunning letter WITHIN 5 days of contact. Say one receives it after a month of initial contact.

 

IMO, significant. You'd have to have proof which would show the date of the initial communication (photo of callerID if a call) AND have proof of the dunning letter showing that 5 days past (copy of letter showing a date beyond 5 days and/or postmark of envelope beyond 5 days).

 

CA got the debt from OC in dec and started reporting from X/1/09. (soft pull on 5/5/09) I have a settlement offer letter dated 2/9/09 from AAC (CA) stating ".....based on our phone call we have agreed upon (lying) XXXX amt toward settlement of the a/c....blah.." Nothing else. I DVed them on 12th and received the dunning letter and validation(incomplete) both dated 3/4/09. I sent out second DV on 30/3/09 priority mail RRR and was picked up on 2/4/09.

 

I'm confused by your dates. Sorry. In short, if they reported to the CRAs or called or wrote (other than a dunning) more than 5-10 days (giving them an extra 5 for mail) after reciving their dunning letter, then they violated Sect. 809(a) of the FDCPA.

 

2) Reporting inaccurately with CRAs.

Ex:  Closed collection a/c with TU - Bal - 95

       Open OTHER a/c with EQ - Bal - 100

       Closed collection a/c with EX - Bal - 95

 

"Open OTHER" isn't important, IMO. I could be wrong, but I think all CAs listed within EQ are reported as "Open". Technically it is an opened collection. However, your balances you have could be significant if the balance due isn't $100.

 

I have two collection a/cs. On EQ, in collection a/cs, I have only 1 a/c listed and that is not this one. This one is listed under 'Other'. Apparently there are 3 types of a/c listings on EQ - revolving, installment and other (for charge a/cs like amex). This CA a/c is listed under that 'other' and open.The actual balances are 1855 on TU/EX and 1850 on EQ after updating this month. They corrected and they are all the same now but were not the last two months.

 

If they corrected it, then there's not much you can do. However, I'd review your own records and the records of the OC to match the amount owed. I got AFNI to go away because I challenged them on a balance that was lower than what was actually owed. I just didn't tell them that it was lower.

 

________

 

4) Updating the a/c and balance with the CRAs after inaccurate (no copy of debt from OC) debt validation

 

IMO, report has nothing to do with validation. Two different things (FCRA vs FDCPA). Per the FDCPA, the CA doesn't have to provide anything from the OC.

I though the CA has to provide a copy of the debt or any relevant document from OC. Not required? 

 

Per the FDPCA, the only thing the CA has to give you is the amount owed, the OC name and contact info, and a copy of the judgment if you were sued by them. The OC info and balance can be provided simply on the CA's letterhead/printouts. Your state could possibly require more info though. YMMV.

 

Do these violations carry any weight at all? Especially if say, the CA validates the debt? Enough for a judge to make the CA pay me penalties and I of course pay the CA the debt. 

 

If a CA were to sue you and you counter with clear violations, the judge would rule in your favor and you wouldn't have to pay a dime. ALWAYS look for an out. Make sure they crossed every "T" and dotted every "i". Look for violations (memorize the FDCPA and FCRA) and look at your own state's laws and their state's laws could apply too. Keep every letter. Find a weakness (like the failure to send you a dunning letter on time) and hammer at it over and over. Look to see if they are licensed too. Complaints on violations work well too with the state's AG, BBB, FTC, and other consumer-related agencies.

 

 


 

Message Edited by nothingman02 on 04-18-2009 05:49 PM

 

Valued Contributor
nothingman02
Posts: 1,072
Registered: ‎02-15-2009
0

Re: Violations

[ Edited ]

I'm confused by your dates. Sorry. In short, if they reported to the CRAs or called or wrote (other than a dunning) more than 5-10 days (giving them an extra 5 for mail) after reciving their dunning letter, then they violated Sect. 809(a) of the FDCPA.

This is what happened so far;

January 5th - soft pull by CA

Sometime in january - CA places a/c on my CBRs.

Feb 5th - I call and speak for 5 secs. nothing in the call. I offer 30%PFD, they refuse, I hang up.

Feb 9th (Dated) - received a settlement letter

Feb 12th - I DV

March 4th (dated) - I receive dunning letter and my DV validation - 2 different mails

So, it their dunning letter was after 23 days after their first letter/communication to me.

 


If they corrected it, then there's not much you can do. However, I'd review your own records and the records of the OC to match the amount owed. I got AFNI to go away because I challenged them on a balance that was lower than what was actually owed. I just didn't tell them that it was lower.

 They corrected only the balance. Actually, I am going through your letters to AFNI and CCS for my third DV.  With AFNI, you requested the last balance/bill from OC and they provided you one. Does that happen often? With charged off a/cs? I only have proof of DOLA - my payment - its a bank statement. At that time, Bal = around 700 or less, CL = 800. Last balance from OC = 1376. Unfortunately its way lower than what the CAis reporting = 1855

 

If a CA were to sue you and you counter with clear violations, the judge would rule in your favor and you wouldn't have to pay a dime. ALWAYS look for an out. Make sure they crossed every "T" and dotted every "i". Look for violations (memorize the FDCPA and FCRA) and look at your own state's laws and their state's laws could apply too. Keep every letter. Find a weakness (like the failure to send you a dunning letter on time) and hammer at it over and over. Look to see if they are licensed too. Complaints on violations work well too with the state's AG, BBB, FTC, and other consumer-related agencies.

 Yep. I am gonna give it my best effort.The CAs are not required to be licensed or bonded in AL (where I live.) Atleast not req. to be licensed in LA (where I got the CC). The CA have their HQ in MI but have a presence in many states. Can I still file complaints with BBB, AG,FTC about their violations? I mean, if they dont need to provide OC documents(copy of debt), then they did validate my DV. 

 

Message Edited by nothingman02 on 04-18-2009 07:46 PM
Valued Contributor
nothingman02
Posts: 1,072
Registered: ‎02-15-2009
0

Re: Violations

[ Edited ]

Lol....Im sure theres a way to edit my last post.

 

 ETA: It was way out of whack! I had to 'outdent' it.

Message Edited by nothingman02 on 04-18-2009 07:34 PM
Moderator Emeritus
llecs
Posts: 32,869
Registered: ‎08-04-2007

Re: Violations

Thanks for the typesetting....if you didn't, then I would have.

 

I'm confused by your dates. Sorry. In short, if they reported to the CRAs or called or wrote (other than a dunning) more than 5-10 days (giving them an extra 5 for mail) after reciving their dunning letter, then they violated Sect. 809(a) of the FDCPA.

This is what happened so far;

January 5th - soft pull by CA

Sometime in january - CA places a/c on my CBRs.

Feb 5th - I call and speak for 5 secs. nothing in the call. I offer 30%PFD, they refuse, I hang up.

Feb 9th (Dated) - received a settlement letter

Feb 12th - I DV

March 4th (dated) - I receive dunning letter and my DV validation - 2 different mails

So, it their dunning letter was after 23 days after their first letter/communication to me.

IMO, the 5-day clock started when they reported.

 

 

If they corrected it, then there's not much you can do. However, I'd review your own records and the records of the OC to match the amount owed. I got AFNI to go away because I challenged them on a balance that was lower than what was actually owed. I just didn't tell them that it was lower.

 They corrected only the balance. Actually, I am going through your letters to AFNI and CCS for my third DV.  With AFNI, you requested the last balance/bill from OC and they provided you one. Does that happen often? With charged off a/cs? I only have proof of DOLA - my payment - its a bank statement. At that time, Bal = around 700 or less, CL = 800. Last balance from OC = 1376. Unfortunately its way lower than what the CAis reporting = 1855

No....I asked for a copy of the bill directly from the OC. I left the CA out of it. I then asked for the balance due from the CA and went after AFNI, in that example, because their balance per verification (Sect. 809 FDCPA) didn't jive with the OC's final balance. Mine was easy because they certainly could argue added interest or anything like that. The only time I would be willing to tell the CA what that balance actually was is if we went to court. That was one of my trump cards, if you know what I mean.

 

You'd have to do some serious accounting of your own to try to equal their figure. Crunch the numbers. Also, look for any correspondence that may indicate an interest rate or "collection fees". Collection fees are illegal but some CAs try to slip them in. For example, I had a debt with First Premier. The CA was Arrow. Arrow had a line item (and I still have their docs) that says "Principle - $600". "Interest accrued - $0". "Collection fees - $600". The dollar amounts are estimated but fairly accurate, but they were charging me a fee of 100% just to get their money.

 

 

 

If a CA were to sue you and you counter with clear violations, the judge would rule in your favor and you wouldn't have to pay a dime. ALWAYS look for an out. Make sure they crossed every "T" and dotted every "i". Look for violations (memorize the FDCPA and FCRA) and look at your own state's laws and their state's laws could apply too. Keep every letter. Find a weakness (like the failure to send you a dunning letter on time) and hammer at it over and over. Look to see if they are licensed too. Complaints on violations work well too with the state's AG, BBB, FTC, and other consumer-related agencies.

 Yep. I am gonna give it my best effort.The CAs are not required to be licensed or bonded in AL (where I live.) Atleast not req. to be licensed in LA (where I got the CC). The CA have their HQ in MI but have a presence in many states. Can I still file complaints with BBB, AG,FTC about their violations? I mean, if they dont need to provide OC documents(copy of debt), then they did validate my DV. 

Yes, you can still file complaints. IMO, use it as a last resort. You can only do that once. Their lack of a timely dunning letter is a big deal. Or at least I  would make it one. Communicate with them first and try to get them to go away without outside interference.

Valued Contributor
nothingman02
Posts: 1,072
Registered: ‎02-15-2009
0

Re: Violations

Thanks for the help llecs. I know what to do now and will start working on it. Hope it works out. Will post back here.

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