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@Broke_Triathlete wrote:We sat down and had a good talk about our casual conversation the other night, and there was some progress. After we talked about it we decided for now to keep seperate accounts so we aren't worried about spending the other persons money on something we individually want, which I get. Meanwhile we'll continue to pay bills out of our joint account and once I get my student loans paid off (last of my debt) we'll start contributing more to our joint savings for vacations and such.
Regarding the percentage payments she understands where I'm coming from and agreed if I ever started to struggle, which I'm not currently, that she would pick up the slack. She also said that if she wanted to move into a bigger place that she knows I can't afford she would definitely pay more of the bill. We take home nearly the same amount every two weeks because of her health insurance and 401K contributions (20%), plus the taxes on her money. Meanwhile my boss pays for my health insurance out of his company account, and I'm in a much lower tax bracket.
So we came to the agreements, which I'm ok with. As I've already said I just wanted to see her thoughts on the topic. I wasn't fighting for it one way or the other. She elaborated a bit on the "take care of myself" attitude in that she explained how she's been taught to be independant, yada yada yada, which I get when you're single.
She also appologized for getting so mad and "attacking" me. She emphasized again she doesn't care how much I make or where I work just as long as I'm happy. She also admitted that I make more than she does based on the hours that I work and she said she wished she had my job.
All in all it was a good convo, and I'm definitely not what the "F" as I was a few nights ago.
Well there you go. All you needed is a detailed discussion. Happy for you
I had the exact thing happen to me my wife makes almost twice as much as me she owned a condo I had a apartment when we met. Dated 3 yrs got married two years ago heck she still hasn't changed her last name but neither did her sisters til they became pregnant I guess it runs in the family that doesn't not be me though. So we had our separate car payments and Cc bills. Just last month I put her on my insurance to ease that bill. I take care of the cable, phone and insurance now so I feel somewhat meaningful. It was a weird awkward talk on how she thought the bills should be 50/50 and I was like well yes if we made the same but we don't etc. she probably doesn't agree with me even now and is quick to remind me I had all of this long before u and I was doing just fine by myself. So I try to pay for the vacations now etc, anytime we eat out but ya it's weird and hard to not feel needed but on the other side if you have ever dated a crazy person or someone u think is being unfaithful it's worth it 10x over to know you got a good woman by your side who stuck with me many months after a layoff years ago.
@Broke_Triathlete wrote:We sat down and had a good talk about our casual conversation the other night, and there was some progress. After we talked about it we decided for now to keep seperate accounts so we aren't worried about spending the other persons money on something we individually want, which I get. Meanwhile we'll continue to pay bills out of our joint account and once I get my student loans paid off (last of my debt) we'll start contributing more to our joint savings for vacations and such.
Regarding the percentage payments she understands where I'm coming from and agreed if I ever started to struggle, which I'm not currently, that she would pick up the slack. She also said that if she wanted to move into a bigger place that she knows I can't afford she would definitely pay more of the bill. We take home nearly the same amount every two weeks because of her health insurance and 401K contributions (20%), plus the taxes on her money. Meanwhile my boss pays for my health insurance out of his company account, and I'm in a much lower tax bracket.
So we came to the agreements, which I'm ok with. As I've already said I just wanted to see her thoughts on the topic. I wasn't fighting for it one way or the other. She elaborated a bit on the "take care of myself" attitude in that she explained how she's been taught to be independant, yada yada yada, which I get when you're single.
She also appologized for getting so mad and "attacking" me. She emphasized again she doesn't care how much I make or where I work just as long as I'm happy. She also admitted that I make more than she does based on the hours that I work and she said she wished she had my job.
All in all it was a good convo, and I'm definitely not what the "F" as I was a few nights ago.
Wow a tough situation. I'm a little bit older than you and have a couple of daughters now, and have spent a good deal of time lately reflecting on how people are engotiating relationships these days, so fwiw here's an opinion.
First, realize that you guys are still young, are prone to making definitive statements, and that wisdom will make each of you change your positions over time. So, keep that in mind with your fiance, she may mellow on this.
Second, a factor in this is the messages young men and women get in their lives these days, from their moms, their favorite pop stars, Disney characters, college professors, etc. I think its a good thing that women are getting tons of messages to be self-reliant, not rely on a man, be diligent about red lines that are crossed in a relationship, etc. All good things, but sometimes it can morph into not being vulnerable in a relationship, not letting yourself experience the joy of a joint venture that a marriage should be. Your fiance has a bit of that right now, it'll probably soften as she really commits to you. On the flip side, messages to boys really haven't changed much. You are the provider, the protector, etc, etc. The trouble is that women are happy to have you sprint in that role, until they aren't. I think there's all sorts of reasons that women won't clue you in that they aren't playing the role in that game you might subliminally expect (starting with, it's your game not theirs, but also because there is an undercurrent of contempt throughout society when men don't want to play those roles) but boys just plain never get the benefit of counsel and wisdom from other guys in their life. Relationships and how to navigate them are topcis of conversations among girls constantly, while for boys it hardly ever is (including with their gfs), you pretty much have to figure it out for yourself or through trial and error.
As I said, these aren't bad situations, just the background of what is going on. Your fiance is mentally and emotionally prepared to protect herself and stand her ground, good for her. Two people having that attitude probably doesn't make for a fulfilling relationship in my opinion, but this is the situation today.
You may try a couple of things: first, take the tack a woman might - you bring more to the table that just your money. Many women are counseled (rightly so) to walk away from this kind of behavior. Could you? There's fairness, and if your companionship and the pleasure of your personality are worth something to her, she whould show that and compromise (maybe.)
Or, if you are 50/50, then you will have equal say in how those expenses are spent. You have veto power. Insist and sizing down if you need to in order to have some personal slack. If she leaves the lights on, or won't cut the cord because you want to, eating out yet again, wants too expensive a present for her parents, or insists on the latest phone when you are worried about the extra $20/mo that will hurt you, that's on her expense sheet, not yours. It's her game, she shouldn't hold it against you. A woman wouldn't be shy about holding the line on stupid expenses like these.
Good luck! And don't despair, you guys are still negotiating this out. A marriage should be a joint venture, a life of its own that grows bigger than both of you, and there's joy in finding that someone has your back unconditionally in those one or two times in your life you really needed it. That joy can't be found in a situation like this, but your relationship has a lot of growth ahead of it so it very well could.
I just got married to my girlfriend of 3.5 years last weekend, so I'm in a good position to relate. I make approximately double what she does, so we have taken our joint expenses and divided them up proportionally. For our mortgage, utilities, HOA, etc. I pay 67% and she pays 33%. We have a single joint account that gets auto debited for all those expenses, and we each contribute via direct deposit automatically into that account to cover our share of the expenses.
The rest of what we make goes into our individual accounts (as of right now at least), and we get to decide what we want to do with those funds to a large extent with caveats of course. Those caveats are we are each contributing at least 6% of our income into retirement, a portion into normal savings and any purchases over $500 we run by the other person to make sure it won't upset them. I'm the spender of the two of us, so about a year into dating I got in the habit of telling her whenever I was going to purchase something that she might think was extravagant. I have 3 motorcycles, a built Jeep and a whole bunch of other expensive hobbies, so it was good for me to have that sounding board to be sure it was a good/not horrible idea to spend my money that way.
I can understand where you are both coming from, and I don't think either perspective is unreasonable. That said, the only way you're going to figure out what is workable is to communicate, communicate and communicate some more! Finances are probably the biggest driver of divorce, so you need to get this situation figured out well before you walk down the aisle. I think that fixed costs and shared costs like housing should be split proportionally, and there's another angle to consider here. She currently makes more than you, but what if in the future she makes less than you? Do you think she'll still want to split things 50/50 if she makes less? Lots of things can even take someone out of the labor market altogether - becoming a mother and taking time off, becoming disabled, losing your job in a tough economy.... Those are all important factors to consider when talking about how to split costs. Above all though, communicate and I'm sure everything will work out.
My husband and I met later in life. We had established financial identities. We had direct deposits and automated payments already in place. So we set up joint acct, both checking and savings, that we use to pay dual/household expenses. We maintained our personal accounts. I don't think people who have never done it understand how hard it can be to simply change your name after marriage. You get your marriage certificate (and about 3 certified copies because you're going to need those later), you go to the SS office and get a new SS card under your new name, you go to DMV to get a new driver's license under your new name, then you have to painstakingly go through each account/business/job/insurance and change your name there, and each business has their own method of verification (some want a certified copy). Now add a layer of undoing years of financial dealings to close a current account and open a new one, simply so there is only one account that everyone uses? Was not going to happen for me. And I would not ask him to do that either. It was simplier and made more sense to maintain a personal account for each of us and transfer into the joint for expenses. Over the years we have established a joint financial identity now, but I've had an account at my bank, my personal account, open for over 20 years. This is what works for us. It keeps us individual, and allows us some flexibility of mad spending that we don't have to feel the need to "clearing" with the other half. When it comes to personal expenditures out of our personal accounts, there are no issues. Out of joint, we discuss major purchases (no set $$ figure, but more of a "need" vs "want" discussion).
I do remember going over the household budget together, and we established how much we would each put into the joint account based on what our household expenses were. Since I make more, I put more. But we both have learned, and are still learning to be flexible.
This is not about being roommates. It's not about being greedy. It's about being an adult and knowing where your money is going and what it's being spent on. Open honest communication in a marriage is important on all fronts. And just because you get married does not mean that individual identity ends, including financial.
Bizarre rational if you ask me. You could have suggested that you start taking more hours so she could cut down on hours. That way it's 50/50.
But you want more recreational time. She works twice as much as you, and you want her to pay more than 50/50? Even though without her you would need to support yourself 100 anyway. I'm guessing since you work half as much as her your math made it 25 percent is your fair share? I really hope that your math also means your doing 75 of all housework, errands, and having warm dinner ready for her on the table when she gets home.
Marriage isn't a 50%/50% deal. It is 100%/100%. It works best when that is the
understanding, but also the rules for property settlement in the case of a divorce
are patterned on equal shares of total joint income. Whatever sidebar agreements
parties might have about finances don't overrule how the split will be in the case
of a divorce. When/if you leave a marriage, you leave with 1/2 the accumulated stuff
whether you "earned it" or not.
Just my $.02 as an old divorced (twice) guy. If your prospective partner doesn't hold
with the spirit of the old vows and/or if there are no kids in the mix, why would anyone
consider marriage ? It is a contract intended to provide security for children and women,
although security for women has fallen from importance. My advice is don't do it unless
there is a compelling need for the contract. My advice doesn't mean I'm anti-marriage, just
that I think it has specific limited applicability and isn't a universal requirement for people
sharing time. Marry her when there are kids planned or when she wants a husband rather
than a subcontracted partner.