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"Entitled" to a house

Established Contributor

Re: "Entitled" to a house


pipeguy wrote:

I'm staying away from "politics" in this post, but this attitude is exactly why the last housing "boom" happened - no doc loans, LIAR loans and a Government policy that everyone is "entitled" to a house. We know how well that turned out.....

 

Government programs spend a LOT of money every year in housing assistance, from rent subsidies to HUD programs to mortgage buy downs, and even USDA funds, In my experience, a helping hand can work, a flat no skin in the game giveaway doesn't. Again, staying away from then politics, I'll leave it at that.


I get where you're coming from, but after much observation, the problem goes way beyond politics.  People really do feel entitled.  They don't think they should have to earn anything or make anything happen for themselves.  If what they want is too hard for them to make happen, they really feel it is the responsibility of someone else - anybody but them, to make what they want happen.

 

The biggest danger to this entitlement mentality taking over larger portions of the population is that it really will leave those who desperately need help, scraping up the crumbs as they watch the funds of a program get dispersed to larger and larger segment of the population. It is a representation of just how selfish and self-centered our society has truely become as a whole when looking at the individuals who make up that whole.  A sad affair really.

gardening: 6/2018 updated: 01/06/2018 rebuild: 2/2016 EQ 648 TU 642 EX 663
Start Mort: EQ 817 TU 783 EX 811 Fico 8: EQ 850 TU 791 EX 850
Curr Mort.: EQ 817 TU 800 EX 811 Fico 8: EQ 850 TU 843 EX 850
Goal Mort.: EQ 817 TU 800 EX 811 Fico 8: EQ 850 TU 850 EX 850
Take the myFICO Fitness Challenge
Message 11 of 20
Valued Contributor

Re: "Entitled" to a house


LOTR wrote:

pipeguy wrote:

I'm staying away from "politics" in this post, but this attitude is exactly why the last housing "boom" happened - no doc loans, LIAR loans and a Government policy that everyone is "entitled" to a house. We know how well that turned out.....

 

Government programs spend a LOT of money every year in housing assistance, from rent subsidies to HUD programs to mortgage buy downs, and even USDA funds, In my experience, a helping hand can work, a flat no skin in the game giveaway doesn't. Again, staying away from then politics, I'll leave it at that.


I get where you're coming from, but after much observation, the problem goes way beyond politics.  People really do feel entitled.  They don't think they should have to earn anything or make anything happen for themselves.  If what they want is too hard for them to make happen, they really feel it is the responsibility of someone else - anybody but them, to make what they want happen.

 

The biggest danger to this entitlement mentality taking over larger portions of the population is that it really will leave those who desperately need help, scraping up the crumbs as they watch the funds of a program get dispersed to larger and larger segment of the population. It is a representation of just how selfish and self-centered our society has truely become as a whole when looking at the individuals who make up that whole.  A sad affair really.


Trust me, in my business I know very VERY well what you are saying, but that said there are a lot of people in need that benefit (correctly) through helping hands programs. I can't really post a lot of insight on the housing aspect because to do so would have to look at the politics behind the no-doc and LIAR loans, along with billions and billions of dollars in entitlement spending which in fact changes the attitude of the public as far as "where is my share". Perhaps I'll do a blog post on it, if I ever figure out how the blog works on this forum and what is allowed. 

Message 12 of 20
Established Contributor

Re: "Entitled" to a house


pipeguy wrote:

LOTR wrote:

pipeguy wrote:

I'm staying away from "politics" in this post, but this attitude is exactly why the last housing "boom" happened - no doc loans, LIAR loans and a Government policy that everyone is "entitled" to a house. We know how well that turned out.....

 

Government programs spend a LOT of money every year in housing assistance, from rent subsidies to HUD programs to mortgage buy downs, and even USDA funds, In my experience, a helping hand can work, a flat no skin in the game giveaway doesn't. Again, staying away from then politics, I'll leave it at that.


I get where you're coming from, but after much observation, the problem goes way beyond politics.  People really do feel entitled.  They don't think they should have to earn anything or make anything happen for themselves.  If what they want is too hard for them to make happen, they really feel it is the responsibility of someone else - anybody but them, to make what they want happen.

 

The biggest danger to this entitlement mentality taking over larger portions of the population is that it really will leave those who desperately need help, scraping up the crumbs as they watch the funds of a program get dispersed to larger and larger segment of the population. It is a representation of just how selfish and self-centered our society has truely become as a whole when looking at the individuals who make up that whole.  A sad affair really.


Trust me, in my business I know very VERY well what you are saying, but that said there are a lot of people in need that benefit (correctly) through helping hands programs. I can't really post a lot of insight on the housing aspect because to do so would have to look at the politics behind the no-doc and LIAR loans, along with billions and billions of dollars in entitlement spending which in fact changes the attitude of the public as far as "where is my share". Perhaps I'll do a blog post on it, if I ever figure out how the blog works on this forum and what is allowed. 


I get where you are coming from; Howerver, there are folks that really do need a hand and will make it on their own afterwards. Also, there are folks who mess up repeatedly because they dont care(not they haven't learned). When I worked for a government agency, I have seen first hand large coporation put in for huge grants and demand they get preferential treatment or advised them how to apply. I am like, small innovative companies or entities that can really serve society get ignore due to entitlement. Its not just individuals but companies as well.  you are right, more of the population is getting like this. 

Message 13 of 20
Established Contributor

Re: "Entitled" to a house


pipeguy wrote:

LOTR wrote:

pipeguy wrote:

I'm staying away from "politics" in this post, but this attitude is exactly why the last housing "boom" happened - no doc loans, LIAR loans and a Government policy that everyone is "entitled" to a house. We know how well that turned out.....

 

Government programs spend a LOT of money every year in housing assistance, from rent subsidies to HUD programs to mortgage buy downs, and even USDA funds, In my experience, a helping hand can work, a flat no skin in the game giveaway doesn't. Again, staying away from then politics, I'll leave it at that.


I get where you're coming from, but after much observation, the problem goes way beyond politics.  People really do feel entitled.  They don't think they should have to earn anything or make anything happen for themselves.  If what they want is too hard for them to make happen, they really feel it is the responsibility of someone else - anybody but them, to make what they want happen.

 

The biggest danger to this entitlement mentality taking over larger portions of the population is that it really will leave those who desperately need help, scraping up the crumbs as they watch the funds of a program get dispersed to larger and larger segment of the population. It is a representation of just how selfish and self-centered our society has truely become as a whole when looking at the individuals who make up that whole.  A sad affair really.


Trust me, in my business I know very VERY well what you are saying, but that said there are a lot of people in need that benefit (correctly) through helping hands programs. I can't really post a lot of insight on the housing aspect because to do so would have to look at the politics behind the no-doc and LIAR loans, along with billions and billions of dollars in entitlement spending which in fact changes the attitude of the public as far as "where is my share". Perhaps I'll do a blog post on it, if I ever figure out how the blog works on this forum and what is allowed. 


If that doesn't sum it up, I don't know what does.

gardening: 6/2018 updated: 01/06/2018 rebuild: 2/2016 EQ 648 TU 642 EX 663
Start Mort: EQ 817 TU 783 EX 811 Fico 8: EQ 850 TU 791 EX 850
Curr Mort.: EQ 817 TU 800 EX 811 Fico 8: EQ 850 TU 843 EX 850
Goal Mort.: EQ 817 TU 800 EX 811 Fico 8: EQ 850 TU 850 EX 850
Take the myFICO Fitness Challenge
Message 14 of 20
Valued Contributor

Re: "Entitled" to a house

Lots of good discussion here!

 

I probably should have provided more information about the family member beyond the "entitled" mentality.

 

The person works a "full time" job, takes home a very good salary, buys smoothies and coffees out, eats out, has meals delivered, drives a "new" car, has no student loans (parents gave her a free ride through college to graduation and slightly beyond), lives paycheck to paycheck BY CHOICE, won't save money for bigger expenses like car maintenance, can't afford (again by choice) to be able to buy a replacement tire for a flat tire (has to borrow the money), lives in the moment, and has to have instant gratification.

 

There are no kids.  There are no dependents.  The mortgage cost will be greater than the TOTAL current rent on a very nice apt that is shared with someone else.  (Family's member portion of rent is like $350 a month.  By my estimates, that leaves close to 3k a month for "fun!")

 

There's no medical or urgent "need" for a house.  No babies on their way.  No medical issues.  No security or safety issues.  

 

IF the person lived a different lifestyle (one that wasn't instant gratification, day in and day out) or had medical/safety/security needs AND handled their personal finances responsibility, then I would view the situation differently.

 

If you REALLY want a house, then learn about home owners ship, attend a free seminar on the house buying process, save money, and take ownership of the process!  Don't expect and demand that others give you what you want.  There are quite a few people on this forum who have worked hard to be able to buy a house!  They earn the house.

 

I lost respect for the family member that absolutely would not make financial or personal changes to get a house.

 

I lost respect for the family members that are secretly gifting money (thousands of dollars) to allow the "entitled" person to get a house.  Really?  You won't even tell your spouse, who is against giving said family member ANY money, that you are you being a money fairy???

 

There have been many times over the years that I could have used a helping hand.  I never felt entitled to it.  I never demanded it.  And right now with everything going on in our personal lives (DH hasn't been working due to illness and brain surgery, our expenses going up with full time care, the medical bills, etc), I would love to be gifted with some help.  But I am not asking for it and I am not demanding it and I am not expecting it.  

 

Here's a good example of how the family member and I would do things differently.  

 

DH was in the hospital for days.  I packed my food and my clothes and my personal stuffs and brought it with me.  I didn't eat in the cafeteria once.  I ate what I brought with me.  (Got really hungry at the end...and ran out of food.)  I didn't stay in a hotel once.  I stayed in his room.  If someone had offered to buy me a meal in the cafeteria, I would have accepted.  If someone had brought me some food, I would have accepted.  I was seriously getting to the point where I was going to ask someone to bring me food, I was so hungry!  And that's ok for me.  I'll ask for help if I really, really, really need it.

 

The family member would have been visiting Starbucks multiple times a day.  Yeah - did you know that Starbucks is actually IN some hospitals now??   The family member would have turned down the offer of food.  Instead they would have said "We have to go out to eat," and then stuck the person with the bill, cuz you know that's the least that person could do since the family member was sick in the hospital.  The family member would never ever consider spending the night in the hospital - it would have to be a hotel room.  A NICE hotel room.

 

As someone posted, you are right - I can say "No" when asked for money.  I can sit back and watch the money drama unfold.  I can eat popcorn or some other snack as the arguments broadcast when the spouse finds out about the secret money gifts or loans.  I can dispassionately listen as the demands go out for help to do maintenance, repair the house, or renovate it.  I am sure that those things will happen.  At the end of the day, I don't have to participate in the "entitled" mentality or in the requests for financial hand outs.

 

All that being said, again, if the circumstances were different, I would probably feel differently and react differently.  But this is a healthy, nearly 30 adult, that owes family members money, has no savings, won't make lifestyle changes, and expects those around to make her a home owner.

 

It's all about choices.

Message 15 of 20
Valued Contributor

Re: "Entitled" to a house

It so sad.  Beside the one I posted about we know another "special" person.  Give me  give me  you have money I want it now.  It got so bad we had to block their phone number and e mail address.  Kids are  the worst but that would be a long drama novel.  Maybe I talk about that another day. 

Message 16 of 20
Established Contributor

Re: "Entitled" to a house


IOBA wrote:

Lots of good discussion here!

 

I probably should have provided more information about the family member beyond the "entitled" mentality.

 

The person works a "full time" job, takes home a very good salary, buys smoothies and coffees out, eats out, has meals delivered, drives a "new" car, has no student loans (parents gave her a free ride through college to graduation and slightly beyond), lives paycheck to paycheck BY CHOICE, won't save money for bigger expenses like car maintenance, can't afford (again by choice) to be able to buy a replacement tire for a flat tire (has to borrow the money), lives in the moment, and has to have instant gratification.

 

There are no kids.  There are no dependents.  The mortgage cost will be greater than the TOTAL current rent on a very nice apt that is shared with someone else.  (Family's member portion of rent is like $350 a month.  By my estimates, that leaves close to 3k a month for "fun!")

 

There's no medical or urgent "need" for a house.  No babies on their way.  No medical issues.  No security or safety issues.  

 

IF the person lived a different lifestyle (one that wasn't instant gratification, day in and day out) or had medical/safety/security needs AND handled their personal finances responsibility, then I would view the situation differently.

 

If you REALLY want a house, then learn about home owners ship, attend a free seminar on the house buying process, save money, and take ownership of the process!  Don't expect and demand that others give you what you want.  There are quite a few people on this forum who have worked hard to be able to buy a house!  They earn the house.

 

I lost respect for the family member that absolutely would not make financial or personal changes to get a house.

 

I lost respect for the family members that are secretly gifting money (thousands of dollars) to allow the "entitled" person to get a house.  Really?  You won't even tell your spouse, who is against giving said family member ANY money, that you are you being a money fairy???

 

There have been many times over the years that I could have used a helping hand.  I never felt entitled to it.  I never demanded it.  And right now with everything going on in our personal lives (DH hasn't been working due to illness and brain surgery, our expenses going up with full time care, the medical bills, etc), I would love to be gifted with some help.  But I am not asking for it and I am not demanding it and I am not expecting it.  

 

Here's a good example of how the family member and I would do things differently.  

 

DH was in the hospital for days.  I packed my food and my clothes and my personal stuffs and brought it with me.  I didn't eat in the cafeteria once.  I ate what I brought with me.  (Got really hungry at the end...and ran out of food.)  I didn't stay in a hotel once.  I stayed in his room.  If someone had offered to buy me a meal in the cafeteria, I would have accepted.  If someone had brought me some food, I would have accepted.  I was seriously getting to the point where I was going to ask someone to bring me food, I was so hungry!  And that's ok for me.  I'll ask for help if I really, really, really need it.

 

The family member would have been visiting Starbucks multiple times a day.  Yeah - did you know that Starbucks is actually IN some hospitals now??   The family member would have turned down the offer of food.  Instead they would have said "We have to go out to eat," and then stuck the person with the bill, cuz you know that's the least that person could do since the family member was sick in the hospital.  The family member would never ever consider spending the night in the hospital - it would have to be a hotel room.  A NICE hotel room.

 

As someone posted, you are right - I can say "No" when asked for money.  I can sit back and watch the money drama unfold.  I can eat popcorn or some other snack as the arguments broadcast when the spouse finds out about the secret money gifts or loans.  I can dispassionately listen as the demands go out for help to do maintenance, repair the house, or renovate it.  I am sure that those things will happen.  At the end of the day, I don't have to participate in the "entitled" mentality or in the requests for financial hand outs.

 

All that being said, again, if the circumstances were different, I would probably feel differently and react differently.  But this is a healthy, nearly 30 adult, that owes family members money, has no savings, won't make lifestyle changes, and expects those around to make her a home owner.

 

It's all about choices.


IOBA, may your husband recover from the illness and brain surgery.  It has to be especially frustrating to watch all of this go down as you both live real life problems.  

gardening: 6/2018 updated: 01/06/2018 rebuild: 2/2016 EQ 648 TU 642 EX 663
Start Mort: EQ 817 TU 783 EX 811 Fico 8: EQ 850 TU 791 EX 850
Curr Mort.: EQ 817 TU 800 EX 811 Fico 8: EQ 850 TU 843 EX 850
Goal Mort.: EQ 817 TU 800 EX 811 Fico 8: EQ 850 TU 850 EX 850
Take the myFICO Fitness Challenge
Message 17 of 20
Frequent Contributor

Re: "Entitled" to a house

For goodness' sake, IOBA, ask for help if you have family that can provide it. There's no need to martyr yourself -- your entire family knows you're not like that other relative. You're in a difficult enough situation, why suffer more because of crazy principles; the only way I see anyone not going to family is if they've abused their good will.

As for other stories of entitlement here, those people were not raised well enough. They weren't taught by their families that they should earn their rewards. Don't blame the government; the government didn't create these folks.

Living off government programs hardly makes for an easy situation, but even if there weren't any handouts those people would still be what they are: users.
Message 18 of 20
Contributor

Re: "Entitled" to a house

I personally know about 12 people who lost their homes during the housing meltdown. I will say at least 9 of them deserved to lose their homes. Entitlement mentality. No understanding that home ownership is a privilege, not a basic human right. No clue about ARM mortgages and bought into the lie that that a mortgage is better than renting. Kinda bites you in the arse when not only do you have to pay the mortgage, but now you have to pay to have things fixed when they break.......AC units, hot water heaters, etc. Lol.

 

Like many others, the DW and I have done stupid things with money. But we got ourselves out of it on our own. It was a struggle, but we did it on our own terms, and therefore we don't owe any family members money or favors.

 

Living with and sticking to a budget has gave us financial freedom, like you wouldn't believe. The difference between having money and not having money is the difference between a crisis and a inconvenience. We are firm believers in Murphy's Law. If you are not prepared for a rainy day, Murphy is gonna move into your house or apartment, and he's gonna bring his three cousins--- Broke, Desperate, and Stupid.

 

So with that said we don't finance bad, chronic financial behavior. Don't cosign either.

Message 19 of 20
Highlighted
New Contributor

Re: "Entitled" to a house

Absolutely not. Why are you worried about what others do with their money? As long as you're not the money fairy, don't worry about it.
goodcreditgirl1
Message 20 of 20