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Valued Contributor
Posts: 3,003
Registered: ‎08-13-2009

"Entitled" to a house

This situation got me thinking...and I am kinda curious about how others think...

 

A family member decided to be entitled to a house.  Ya know, deserved a house!  Therefore the banks should just give a mortgage and not care about things like DTI, collections, savings, etc.  

 

This family member has no money saved.  Lives paycheck to paycheck.  Not sure what the credit score is, but the APR was 6% for the loan, FHA.  This was before the last interest rate increase by the Feds.  Not sure what it is now.

 

This family member decided that someone was going to "gift" the down payment.  (I think it's being tailored as a loan behind the scenes, but for the mortgage company, it's a "gift".)  

 

This family member decided that the seller should pay all closing costs, without raising the purchase price.

 

This family member yelled and screamed at Trump because he said no to lower the PMI for FHA loans.  How dare he affect said family member's ability to buy a house!

 

This family member has official debt (as seen on the credit report) and unofficial debt (money owed to family members).  The official debt takes the DTI, with a mortgage, higher than 60%.

 

YET...

 

Somehow, the family member managed to get under contract for a house.  Somehow, the family member managed to find a few more money fairies to pay all of the expenses.  Somehow, the family member managed to get approved for the mortgage.  (Closing hasn't happened yet, but any day now...)

 

And I realized that I have lost respect for the family member AND for the money fairies that handed over cash to make this deal happen.  Some of the money fairies are doing the cash gifting behind closed doors so that not even their spouses know about the money.  I disagree with that behavior too.  The family member was not willing to actually save up for a house.  The family member was not willing to take classes or seminars about home buying.  

 

Would you loose respect for someone with this mentality (I want a house, so everyone else has to make it happen)?

 

Would you loose respect for the money fairies secretly giving or loaning the funds?

 

 

 

 

 

Moderator
Posts: 16,954
Registered: ‎12-30-2011

Re: "Entitled" to a house

I don't know; my thinking changed around the mortgage crisis where I saw a bunch of people get handouts and I got zip.  Now my theory is if someone is willing to give you a handout, take it, pride/whatever be damned... my doing the "responsible" thing got me nowhere.

 

I do have a problem with the secret gifting at least if it was above the slush fund allowance line (or whatever you call what one partner can spend without consulting the other) or otherwise breaking whatever deal the couple has... that's an ethical no no in my world.  Beyond that though /shrug.  People make their own choices, and any choice which doesn't affect me, I'm learning not to give a **bleep** over.

Starting Score: EQ 5 561, TU 98 567, EX 2 599 (12/30/11)
Current Score: EQ 5 693, TU 4 742, EX 2 702, EQ 8 722, TU 8 757, EX 8 737 (5/13/17)
Goal Score:    EQ 5 750, TU 4 750, EX 2 750, EQ 8 800, TU 8 Blah, EX 8 800 (01/01/18)


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Established Contributor
Posts: 687
Registered: ‎09-28-2016

Re: "Entitled" to a house

[ Edited ]

Yes. Yes. and Yes!

 

I was once a gifting fairy. Not a secret one...but one none the less.  I use to believe that people just need a break.  Need to be shown the way...a leg up and if given "a chance", they could get it together. They just need to learn different habits.  Learn how it should be done.  Learn the right way to do things.

 

Well...they LEARNED ALRIGHT!  

 

They learn there will ALWAYS be gifting fairies.  Whether they be government gifting fairies...charity gifting fairies...special programs gifting fairies...family gifting fairies...stranger gifting fairies.  Oh, the gifting fairies never end!  The only way gifting fairies will stop is when ...well...the money runs dry or the gifting fairy has enough. 

 

I have many many entitled people in my family and they are entitled to many, MANY things.

 

Let the takers, users and entitlement folks of the world be who they are because that's all they know. Be who you are and refuse to particpate. I don't get upset with those who still try to help my entitled kinsfolk.  I just don't care.  If they want to continue to be used by the users, I say - good luck with that!  I just try stay above the fray and away from the madness.

 

[edited - moderated myself and removed most of my rant. sigh]

 

gardening since: 12/02/2016.... last updated: 03/02/2017....rebuild starting score: (02/20/2016) EQ: 648 TU: 642 EX: 657
Curr. Score (Mortgage): EQ 05: 727, TU 04: 745, EX 02: 796
Goal Score (Mortgage): EQ 05: 760, TU 04: 760, EX 02: 796
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Regular Contributor
Posts: 143
Registered: ‎10-14-2015

Re: "Entitled" to a house

[ Edited ]

Yes, I would lose respect for that mentality, definitely.

 

Whether or not I lose respect for those who help, for me personally would depend on the specific situation of that person (is there a legit reason they felt such a strong need for a house, even though the entitlement is ridiculous?) and the reasoning of the person helping them.

 


LOTR wrote:

 I was once a gifting fairy. Not a secret one...but one none the less.  I use to believe that people just need a break.  Need to be shown the way...a leg up and if given "a chance", they could get it together. They just need to learn different habits.  Learn how it should be done.  Learn the right way to do things.

 

Well...they LEARNED ALRIGHT!  

 

They learn there will ALWAYS be gifting fairies. ...

 

Let the takers, users and entitlement folks of the world be who they are because that's all they know. Be who you are and refuse to particpate.


So, I'm significantly disabled, I've been living in a vehicle the past 3+ years and if were not for the kindness of various folks helping me I would be dead by now. I am what you might call a "taker". My family doesn't believe in welfare, and during the 8+ years I was bedridden (since age 16) they first plunged themselves into debt paying my medical bills until I finally convinced them to help me get on SSI. I lost nearly a decade of my life to requiring almost total care, not just physically but also most years unable to carry on conversations, make my own phone calls, or fill out my own paperwork (severe physical reactions to paper).

 

I have oh-so-slowly climbed out of that. It involved someone over the internet I barely knew offering to pay my first two appointments to see a doctor for a treatment he was convinced would help me. That treatment turned out to be the thing to get me back on my feet (I didn't accept the offer, btw). It involved 3 different friends pooling together a 5K loan so I could buy a van to escape an abusive environment. It involved mechanics cutting me a few breaks to help out when the van kept breaking down on me, and it involved my dad being willing to buy a reliable newer minivan and trade me when my old van completely broke down for the last time.

 

And so much more than I could ever list.

 

Some of this I might eventually be able to pay back, others probably not. Last year I began working (odd jobs) for the first time in my adult life and began slowly paying back my friends. I still need a caregiver a few times a week, which is now my boyfriend. And that internet stranger, whom I've now been close friends with for 6 years, was just the other night offering out of the blue to help me pay rent so our lives could stabilize enough to both get better work. And I'm extremely hesitant to accept because I *think* we just might be able to squeak by unassisted this time.

 

I think it's important to draw a distinction between those who feel entitled to a house, and those who have no choice but to rely on help, at least temporarily, and who give back as much as they can. Seattle has a lot of people begging on the street corners, but I once saw a homeless man who had lined the entire side of the street with paintings of his, apparently for sale, and I smiled. THAT, I can respect.

 

I once met a man who wanted to ask me for tips on how to get on disability benefits because, as he put it, "I'm just not the working type. I'm not the sort of person who wants to work, so I shouldn't have to." He had assumed I felt similar. I stared at him with a mixture of shock, disbelief, and distain. Oh, I would give anything to just be able to have a job and stability and contribute to society like a normal person! He didn't like my answer very much.

 

Slowly, I'm getting there. It's taking a lot of time, and in the meantime I still encounter people who see me as a "taker", who have no idea where I've been.

 

Whether or not to help someone is a really personal choice, which is why I'm more lenient on those who decide to help others even if it's misguided. But those who feel entitled to get stuff...no, I don't respect them.

 

Do I feel "entitled" to receive SSI? For me, it's not a matter of entitlement, but rather of logistics. If it was purely every person for themselves, with no handouts whatsoever, then I would be dead. This is a way to survive that does not constantly burden my family and friends. So I choose it because survival is in my nature, as well as trying to not be a burden. I don't, however, get food stamps. I used to, but currently I'm getting by okay without it. If I had no choice, I'd go back on it again. But yes, I'm attempting to graduate from needing government handouts. (Not the least because they prevent me from saving money or receiving gifts from friends.) In the meantime, though, I sure hope they continue because they do provide me with a shred of dignity, autonomy, and stability.

 

I know many others similar to me - I'm not unique in this mindset or in my attempts. You just don't hear about us because we're not out there clamoring for money.

 

So I would simply request you make a distinction between those who feel entitled to what others have without putting any effort in, and those who are genuinely in situations where they are trying hard to get out and just need a leg up. There IS a difference. The thread was started with regards to those who feel entitled to things like having a house without putting any effort towards saving for it whatsoever. Folks like that and folks like me are WORLDS apart.


Community Leader
Senior Contributor
Posts: 4,926
Registered: ‎04-27-2014

Re: "Entitled" to a house

ehhh... Sounds like "the world owes me everything" character defect/self absorption. It usually doesn't work out too well (foreclosure) and most people seem to graduate from this behavior in time.  Of course some may not, but as long as I see the path they are on, I tend to forgive and understand. I'm not the secret sucker that hands over any cash but being beside it (and not involved) makes life easier for me because I'm way to busy to get caught up in any mess with my family. Smiley Frustrated


Established Contributor
Posts: 687
Registered: ‎09-28-2016

Re: "Entitled" to a house


Batsy wrote:

Yes, I would lose respect for that mentality, definitely.

 

Whether or not I lose respect for those who help, for me personally would depend on the specific situation of that person (is there a legit reason they felt such a strong need for a house, even though the entitlement is ridiculous?) and the reasoning of the person helping them.

 


LOTR wrote:

 I was once a gifting fairy. Not a secret one...but one none the less.  I use to believe that people just need a break.  Need to be shown the way...a leg up and if given "a chance", they could get it together. They just need to learn different habits.  Learn how it should be done.  Learn the right way to do things.

 

Well...they LEARNED ALRIGHT!  

 

They learn there will ALWAYS be gifting fairies. ...

 

Let the takers, users and entitlement folks of the world be who they are because that's all they know. Be who you are and refuse to particpate.


So, I'm significantly disabled, I've been living in a vehicle the past 3+ years and if were not for the kindness of various folks helping me I would be dead by now. I am what you might call a "taker". My family doesn't believe in welfare, and during the 8+ years I was bedridden (since age 16) they first plunged themselves into debt paying my medical bills until I finally convinced them to help me get on SSI. I lost nearly a decade of my life to requiring almost total care, not just physically but also most years unable to carry on conversations, make my own phone calls, or fill out my own paperwork (severe physical reactions to paper).

 

I have oh-so-slowly climbed out of that. It involved someone over the internet I barely knew offering to pay my first two appointments to see a doctor for a treatment he was convinced would help me. That treatment turned out to be the thing to get me back on my feet (I didn't accept the offer, btw). It involved 3 different friends pooling together a 5K loan so I could buy a van to escape an abusive environment. It involved mechanics cutting me a few breaks to help out when the van kept breaking down on me, and it involved my dad being willing to buy a reliable newer minivan and trade me when my old van completely broke down for the last time.

 

And so much more than I could ever list.

 

Some of this I might eventually be able to pay back, others probably not. Last year I began working (odd jobs) for the first time in my adult life and began slowly paying back my friends. I still need a caregiver a few times a week, which is now my boyfriend. And that internet stranger, whom I've now been close friends with for 6 years, was just the other night offering out of the blue to help me pay rent so our lives could stabilize enough to both get better work. And I'm extremely hesitant to accept because I *think* we just might be able to squeak by unassisted this time.

 

I think it's important to draw a distinction between those who feel entitled to a house, and those who have no choice but to rely on help, at least temporarily, and who give back as much as they can. Seattle has a lot of people begging on the street corners, but I once saw a homeless man who had lined the entire side of the street with paintings of his, apparently for sale, and I smiled. THAT, I can respect.

 

I once met a man who wanted to ask me for tips on how to get on disability benefits because, as he put it, "I'm just not the working type. I'm not the sort of person who wants to work, so I shouldn't have to." He had assumed I felt similar. I stared at him with a mixture of shock, disbelief, and distain. Oh, I would give anything to just be able to have a job and stability and contribute to society like a normal person! He didn't like my answer very much.

 

Slowly, I'm getting there. It's taking a lot of time, and in the meantime I still encounter people who see me as a "taker", who have no idea where I've been.

 

Whether or not to help someone is a really personal choice, which is why I'm more lenient on those who decide to help others even if it's misguided. But those who feel entitled to get stuff...no, I don't respect them.

 

Do I feel "entitled" to receive SSI? For me, it's not a matter of entitlement, but rather of logistics. If it was purely every person for themselves, with no handouts whatsoever, then I would be dead. This is a way to survive that does not constantly burden my family and friends. So I choose it because survival is in my nature, as well as trying to not be a burden. I don't, however, get food stamps. I used to, but currently I'm getting by okay without it. If I had no choice, I'd go back on it again. But yes, I'm attempting to graduate from needing government handouts. (Not the least because they prevent me from saving money or receiving gifts from friends.) In the meantime, though, I sure hope they continue because they do provide me with a shred of dignity, autonomy, and stability.

 

I know many others similar to me - I'm not unique in this mindset or in my attempts. You just don't hear about us because we're not out there clamoring for money.

 

So I would simply request you make a distinction between those who feel entitled to what others have without putting any effort in, and those who are genuinely in situations where they are trying hard to get out and just need a leg up. There IS a difference. The thread was started with regards to those who feel entitled to things like having a house without putting any effort towards saving for it whatsoever. Folks like that and folks like me are WORLDS apart.


Rest assured: I know how to recognize a REAL person in need over an entitled, user or taker!  Anyone who knows me knows who to come to if they really need help. But they also know, not to bring bs this way.  

 

I'm not coming from a point of view where I've never struggled.  I have.  It's not like I've not been helped by others. I've been down on my luck. I know what it is like to be homeless and broke. I know what it's like to depend on agencies to get back on your feet when you're in a real bad bind.  I've also watch many MANY people work these same agencies and take COMPLETE advantage of them.  

 

My own personal frustration is that people who are perfectly able to make things happen for themselves have no problem being on the take "simply because they can". Not realizing by doing so, they are dipping into the funds of those who really need help. They will take from their parents, grandparent, a struggling single-parent, a disabled person - a mentally disabled person, it doesn't matter who it is or how the funds come about -  as long as they get what they want.  

 

They will fake whatever they gotta fake, tell whatever lie they have to tell, work whatever numbers they have to work, maninpulate whom ever they have to manipulate, demand whatever they have to demand, to get what they want when they want - like the person you mention.  And if they lose what they got - not their fault - it's an unfair world in their mind and that's why they lost this, that or the other!

 

A truely disabled person like yourself and an entitled mindset like the OP's family member are worlds apart!  I sincerely apologize if I made you feel otherwise.

gardening since: 12/02/2016.... last updated: 03/02/2017....rebuild starting score: (02/20/2016) EQ: 648 TU: 642 EX: 657
Curr. Score (Mortgage): EQ 05: 727, TU 04: 745, EX 02: 796
Goal Score (Mortgage): EQ 05: 760, TU 04: 760, EX 02: 796
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Established Contributor
Posts: 512
Registered: ‎01-15-2017

Re: "Entitled" to a house

There is a big difference between "entitled " and legtimate medical situations.  Those with legtimate medical I tend to want to help.  In case "entitled" probably is getting an FHA high end of the risk pool loan.  They will probably end up losing the house or asking for money every month from family and friends. I have a famiy member who feels this way and thinks every one needs to give/help her because she is "special."  About 15 years ago several family members paid and worked her bad debts with pfd and got her scores above 650.  We found a small nice house within her and her husband's income range  and made the downpayment.  Within 3 years she lost it.  She bled her own daughter dry now also.    My understanding is for the past 5 or so years she has lived with her husband in their car.  I have ample room for her in my guest house but I will never invite her over.  My wife and I also will not give her a "job" at our business now.  Many years ago we offered to teach her the business and if she learned it we would open a new store that she could own 1/2 of but she turned us down because we wanted 1/2 for paying all the start up and seed costs. We were "mean and cruel" per her.  She wanted the money to start as a gift and 100% ownership because she is "special"  So now I just let her live   inthe car. 

Regular Contributor
Posts: 143
Registered: ‎10-14-2015
0

Re: "Entitled" to a house


LOTR wrote:

Batsy wrote:

Yes, I would lose respect for that mentality, definitely.

 

Whether or not I lose respect for those who help, for me personally would depend on the specific situation of that person (is there a legit reason they felt such a strong need for a house, even though the entitlement is ridiculous?) and the reasoning of the person helping them.

 


LOTR wrote:

 I was once a gifting fairy. Not a secret one...but one none the less.  I use to believe that people just need a break.  Need to be shown the way...a leg up and if given "a chance", they could get it together. They just need to learn different habits.  Learn how it should be done.  Learn the right way to do things.

 

Well...they LEARNED ALRIGHT!  

 

They learn there will ALWAYS be gifting fairies. ...

 

Let the takers, users and entitlement folks of the world be who they are because that's all they know. Be who you are and refuse to particpate.


So, I'm significantly disabled, I've been living in a vehicle the past 3+ years and if were not for the kindness of various folks helping me I would be dead by now. I am what you might call a "taker". My family doesn't believe in welfare, and during the 8+ years I was bedridden (since age 16) they first plunged themselves into debt paying my medical bills until I finally convinced them to help me get on SSI. I lost nearly a decade of my life to requiring almost total care, not just physically but also most years unable to carry on conversations, make my own phone calls, or fill out my own paperwork (severe physical reactions to paper).

 

I have oh-so-slowly climbed out of that. It involved someone over the internet I barely knew offering to pay my first two appointments to see a doctor for a treatment he was convinced would help me. That treatment turned out to be the thing to get me back on my feet (I didn't accept the offer, btw). It involved 3 different friends pooling together a 5K loan so I could buy a van to escape an abusive environment. It involved mechanics cutting me a few breaks to help out when the van kept breaking down on me, and it involved my dad being willing to buy a reliable newer minivan and trade me when my old van completely broke down for the last time.

 

And so much more than I could ever list.

 

Some of this I might eventually be able to pay back, others probably not. Last year I began working (odd jobs) for the first time in my adult life and began slowly paying back my friends. I still need a caregiver a few times a week, which is now my boyfriend. And that internet stranger, whom I've now been close friends with for 6 years, was just the other night offering out of the blue to help me pay rent so our lives could stabilize enough to both get better work. And I'm extremely hesitant to accept because I *think* we just might be able to squeak by unassisted this time.

 

I think it's important to draw a distinction between those who feel entitled to a house, and those who have no choice but to rely on help, at least temporarily, and who give back as much as they can. Seattle has a lot of people begging on the street corners, but I once saw a homeless man who had lined the entire side of the street with paintings of his, apparently for sale, and I smiled. THAT, I can respect.

 

I once met a man who wanted to ask me for tips on how to get on disability benefits because, as he put it, "I'm just not the working type. I'm not the sort of person who wants to work, so I shouldn't have to." He had assumed I felt similar. I stared at him with a mixture of shock, disbelief, and distain. Oh, I would give anything to just be able to have a job and stability and contribute to society like a normal person! He didn't like my answer very much.

 

Slowly, I'm getting there. It's taking a lot of time, and in the meantime I still encounter people who see me as a "taker", who have no idea where I've been.

 

Whether or not to help someone is a really personal choice, which is why I'm more lenient on those who decide to help others even if it's misguided. But those who feel entitled to get stuff...no, I don't respect them.

 

Do I feel "entitled" to receive SSI? For me, it's not a matter of entitlement, but rather of logistics. If it was purely every person for themselves, with no handouts whatsoever, then I would be dead. This is a way to survive that does not constantly burden my family and friends. So I choose it because survival is in my nature, as well as trying to not be a burden. I don't, however, get food stamps. I used to, but currently I'm getting by okay without it. If I had no choice, I'd go back on it again. But yes, I'm attempting to graduate from needing government handouts. (Not the least because they prevent me from saving money or receiving gifts from friends.) In the meantime, though, I sure hope they continue because they do provide me with a shred of dignity, autonomy, and stability.

 

I know many others similar to me - I'm not unique in this mindset or in my attempts. You just don't hear about us because we're not out there clamoring for money.

 

So I would simply request you make a distinction between those who feel entitled to what others have without putting any effort in, and those who are genuinely in situations where they are trying hard to get out and just need a leg up. There IS a difference. The thread was started with regards to those who feel entitled to things like having a house without putting any effort towards saving for it whatsoever. Folks like that and folks like me are WORLDS apart.


Rest assured: I know how to recognize a REAL person in need over an entitled, user or taker!  Anyone who knows me knows who to come to if they really need help. But they also know, not to bring bs this way.  

 

I'm not coming from a point of view where I've never struggled.  I have.  It's not like I've not been helped by others. I've been down on my luck. I know what it is like to be homeless and broke. I know what it's like to depend on agencies to get back on your feet when you're in a real bad bind.  I've also watch many MANY people work these same agencies and take COMPLETE advantage of them.  

 

My own personal frustration is that people who are perfectly able to make things happen for themselves have no problem being on the take "simply because they can". Not realizing by doing so, they are dipping into the funds of those who really need help. They will take from their parents, grandparent, a struggling single-parent, a disabled person - a mentally disabled person, it doesn't matter who it is or how the funds come about -  as long as they get what they want.  

 

They will fake whatever they gotta fake, tell whatever lie they have to tell, work whatever numbers they have to work, maninpulate whom ever they have to manipulate, demand whatever they have to demand, to get what they want when they want - like the person you mention.  And if they lose what they got - not their fault - it's an unfair world in their mind and that's why they lost this, that or the other!

 

A truely disabled person like yourself and an entitled mindset like the OP's family member are worlds apart!  I sincerely apologize if I made you feel otherwise.


No worries, thanks so much for explaining. From your previous post I thought you meant that no one ever actually "jut needs a leg up" so to speak, but I see now you didn't mean that at all.

 

Hope I didn't derail the thread too much! I'm horrified at all these stories...


Frequent Contributor
Posts: 492
Registered: ‎05-09-2016
0

Re: "Entitled" to a house

I wouldn't lose respect but I would sit back and live my life. The family member will a hiccup, we all do, and the opera will unravel with calls to you and fairies and you can say hell no. See, it makes me mad when family does this and messes up over and over. I have a younger sibling who stays with a wealthy aunt and has no responsibility for anything. Just keep saving and studying credit. I too read books on home buying and tell family members that are entitled to leave me alone.
Valued Contributor
Posts: 2,376
Registered: ‎10-31-2011

Re: "Entitled" to a house

I'm staying away from "politics" in this post, but this attitude is exactly why the last housing "boom" happened - no doc loans, LIAR loans and a Government policy that everyone is "entitled" to a house. We know how well that turned out.....

 

Government programs spend a LOT of money every year in housing assistance, from rent subsidies to HUD programs to mortgage buy downs, and even USDA funds, In my experience, a helping hand can work, a flat no skin in the game giveaway doesn't. Again, staying away from then politics, I'll leave it at that.

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