cancel
Showing results for 
Search instead for 
Did you mean: 

Can I sue for this?

tag
Underh20
Frequent Contributor

Re: Can I sue for this?


@Anonymous wrote:

Legally you have to be given a minimum of 30 days notice to vacate a property once you've lived in a dwelling for a certain amount of time (usually 3 months or so), whether you are on the lease or not.


 

Not exactly.  One has to be a legitimate tenant and not a guest.  Unless she can show she paid rent directly to the owner or the property or the owner's designated representative, she is most likely not a tenant.  Ordinary guests have few, if any, rights to occupy a premises beyond any period that the owner or the leasee allow.

 

Even were the individual a tenant and even if the particular state provided a post-notice period of time in which one may legally remain in the dwelling, often that person is already on the street and trying to enforce that right after the fact. 

Message 11 of 18
Anonymous
Not applicable

Re: Can I sue for this?


@Underh20 wrote:

@Anonymous wrote:

Legally you have to be given a minimum of 30 days notice to vacate a property once you've lived in a dwelling for a certain amount of time (usually 3 months or so), whether you are on the lease or not.


 

Not exactly.  One has to be a legitimate tenant and not a guest.  Unless she can show she paid rent directly to the owner or the property or the owner's designated representative, she is most likely not a tenant.  Ordinary guests have few, if any, rights to occupy a premises beyond any period that the owner or the leasee allow.

 

Even were the individual a tenant and even if the particular state provided a post-notice period of time in which one may legally remain in the dwelling, often that person is already on the street and trying to enforce that right after the fact. 




Not exactly "not exactly." Many, many, many states allow for the "assumption" of tenancy and construe "guests" residing in the home for over 30 days as being tenants via an oral lease (meaning, although there is a lack of a written agreement, there is an "understanding" of tenancy). In which case, the "evictor" has to initiate legal proceedings to evict the "evictee."

And yes, I happen to have experienced this myself. And seen others at a shelter I volunteered at experience it also.

(One of the many reasons why I perk my ears up at the mention of Landlord/Tenant issues ... I've durn nigh run the gamut)

Even if "he" didn't pay a single dime of rent or contribute toward the household expenses, he had to be treated as a legal tenant and evicted via the court system. Process (in my case) took about 3 months from my wanting his butt *out* and finally getting the court's go ahead to legally evict him.

Plus another 30 days for the notice Schnapple mentioned. :/
Message 12 of 18
Underh20
Frequent Contributor

Re: Can I sue for this?


@Anonymous wrote:

@Underh20 wrote:

@Anonymous wrote:

Legally you have to be given a minimum of 30 days notice to vacate a property once you've lived in a dwelling for a certain amount of time (usually 3 months or so), whether you are on the lease or not.


 

Not exactly.  One has to be a legitimate tenant and not a guest.  Unless she can show she paid rent directly to the owner or the property or the owner's designated representative, she is most likely not a tenant.  Ordinary guests have few, if any, rights to occupy a premises beyond any period that the owner or the leasee allow.

 

Even were the individual a tenant and even if the particular state provided a post-notice period of time in which one may legally remain in the dwelling, often that person is already on the street and trying to enforce that right after the fact. 




Not exactly "not exactly." Many, many, many states allow for the "assumption" of tenancy and construe "guests" residing in the home for over 30 days as being tenants via an oral lease (meaning, although there is a lack of a written agreement, there is an "understanding" of tenancy). In which case, the "evictor" has to initiate legal proceedings to evict the "evictee."

And yes, I happen to have experienced this myself. And seen others at a shelter I volunteered at experience it also.

(One of the many reasons why I perk my ears up at the mention of Landlord/Tenant issues ... I've durn nigh run the gamut)

Even if "he" didn't pay a single dime of rent or contribute toward the household expenses, he had to be treated as a legal tenant and evicted via the court system. Process (in my case) took about 3 months from my wanting his butt *out* and finally getting the court's go ahead to legally evict him.

Plus another 30 days for the notice Schnapple mentioned. :/

 

You must be confused.  I'm a member of the bar in CA, NY, FL, OR and TX, been with the Staff Judge Advocate for nearly 30 years, dealt with landlord - tenant issues not only in a military practice but in civil practice and it is the isolated -- if even that -- state that allows any rights of occupancy to any individual with what you term an "understanding of tenancy." 
Message 13 of 18
Anonymous
Not applicable

Re: Can I sue for this?

LOL, I might be confused. All I know is that when I tried to evict a deadbeat friend and a deadbeat boyfriend (VA & MD respectively - both were cases of "Can I crash at your place for a while?" and .... just wouldn't leave), I was told that despite the fact that they were not on a lease of ANY kind, contributed el squato to rent or household expenses, that I had to go through legal channels in order to evict them. That they were considered "tenants" via an oral agreement.

Like I said prior, I worked as a volunteer for a women's shelter and most of their stories were much like mine. When they tried to kick out the abusive jerk out of *their* home, they were forced to do so via the court system. But since they faced the potential for further abuse, they felt it wiser to leave *themselves* instead. While common sense would say that they should have pressed charges against the abusive jerk (thereby "evicting" him via a police car ride), in 90% of abuse cases, that just ain't gonna happen. And yes, this was prior to the changes in domestic violence laws.

In the end, in the case of the BF, I sublet another apartment whilst we fought it out in the courts. I had no other choice.

Several legal boards have had the same general theme ... "have X living in my home, need him/her out, what do I do?" The typical answer is that you have to legally evict them via legal channels.

I've *NEVER* seen a case where the Sheriff's Office will kindly just help you kick someone out of a home without having a judge's order. Typically, they tell you to 1) pound sand or 2) get the order. Or both. :/
Message 14 of 18
Anonymous
Not applicable

Re: Can I sue for this?

Wait a tick! FL? Then perhaps you can offer advice on this particular situation that so far, we've figured is going to be an uphill battle.

Married couple (no kids) own home in southern FL. Brother of hubby comes to "stay" for a while. "A while" turns into 6 months. Then a year. Couple gets sick of the guy living on their couch (literally), leaving the home a mess, and the bill collector's calls/letters (Brother's been ditching his bills for YEARS). Guy buys his own groceries (but kindly shares Couple's groceries). Has HIS mail delivered to Couple's address (has been for about 9 months).

Finally, things come to a "head" and Couple orders him to leave (after months and months of begging, pleading, etc). In desperation (mainly because there's been SUCH an argument over the living situation that they believe that Brother would trash the house when left unattended), they call the police. This, as my cousin related it, was the convo (paraphrased since my memory ain't what it used to be):

Couple: We want him OUT. NOW. (Gives run-down of situation -- fact that guy never paid them rent, never contributed, no agreement as LL/T, etc)

Police: Brother, what's your side of the story?

Brother: I live here. They said I could. My mail's even delivered here (shows officer HIS mail with THEIR address).

Police: No violence?

Couple & Brother: No.

Couple: We just want him OUT. He was never supposed to live here indefinitely. We were just letting him crash on our couch until he could get his act together. It's taking too long and we want him OUT.

Police: Sorry, but it sounds like he's a tenant. He lives here. We can't just kick him out.

Couple: How can he be a tenant if he doesn't pay rent??? We have no agreement that he *would* pay rent. We were just trying to be nice.

Police: You'll have to take him to court and evict him. You're gonna have to let a judge sort this out. Sorry.

So, now my cousin and her hubby are doing their best to evict him. At the moment, they're living in their summer house and hoping against all hope that he's not trashing the home. They've become desperate enough that they'd even sell the durn home, if it means they get rid of him.

That's *how* desperate they are.

Did they handle it the wrong way? Is there *anything*, short of having to go to court, that they can do? They're supposed to have a court date sometime next month or so. But if they can shorten the duration and get their lives back NOW, they'd be ever so grateful.

Message 15 of 18
Underh20
Frequent Contributor

Re: Can I sue for this?


@Anonymous wrote:

I've *NEVER* seen a case where the Sheriff's Office will kindly just help you kick someone out of a home without having a judge's order. Typically, they tell you to 1) pound sand or 2) get the order. Or both. :/

Of course the police will not usually put anybody out of a dwelling place for fear of possible legal liability, but not because they are legally required to have a court order in cases of clear and flagrant illegal occupancy.  Law enforcement serves a fundamental criminal role and to have them voluntarily do anything pertaining to civil matters usually requires a court order.  This does not at all mean that the legitimate owner or owner's representative (i.e. legal tenant) may not remove a guest from the premises.

 

Most individuals who want to put unwelcomed guests out of their home go the self-help eviction route with, if done properly, no risk of facing criminal charges and very little risk of finding themselves in a civil suit.  And just as police are too timid -- or lazy -- to force an unwelcomed guest out, they are equally loath of forcing a legitimate tenant to readmit a guest that was given the heave ho.   

 

All you need to do is perform a stealth eviction and change the locks.  If the former guest decides to return uninvited then we have a case of unlawful entry or B & E and not only should the police not be hesitant to act, but the original tenant may use other means to prevent a home invasion.

Message 16 of 18
Underh20
Frequent Contributor

Re: Can I sue for this?


@Anonymous wrote:
Wait a tick! FL? Then perhaps you can offer advice on this particular situation that so far, we've figured is going to be an uphill battle.

Married couple (no kids) own home in southern FL. Brother of hubby comes to "stay" for a while. "A while" turns into 6 months. Then a year. Couple gets sick of the guy living on their couch (literally), leaving the home a mess, and the bill collector's calls/letters (Brother's been ditching his bills for YEARS). Guy buys his own groceries (but kindly shares Couple's groceries). Has HIS mail delivered to Couple's address (has been for about 9 months).

Finally, things come to a "head" and Couple orders him to leave (after months and months of begging, pleading, etc). In desperation (mainly because there's been SUCH an argument over the living situation that they believe that Brother would trash the house when left unattended), they call the police. This, as my cousin related it, was the convo (paraphrased since my memory ain't what it used to be):

Couple: We want him OUT. NOW. (Gives run-down of situation -- fact that guy never paid them rent, never contributed, no agreement as LL/T, etc)

Police: Brother, what's your side of the story?

Brother: I live here. They said I could. My mail's even delivered here (shows officer HIS mail with THEIR address).

Police: No violence?

Couple & Brother: No.

Couple: We just want him OUT. He was never supposed to live here indefinitely. We were just letting him crash on our couch until he could get his act together. It's taking too long and we want him OUT.

Police: Sorry, but it sounds like he's a tenant. He lives here. We can't just kick him out.

Couple: How can he be a tenant if he doesn't pay rent??? We have no agreement that he *would* pay rent. We were just trying to be nice.

Police: You'll have to take him to court and evict him. You're gonna have to let a judge sort this out. Sorry.

So, now my cousin and her hubby are doing their best to evict him. At the moment, they're living in their summer house and hoping against all hope that he's not trashing the home. They've become desperate enough that they'd even sell the durn home, if it means they get rid of him.

That's *how* desperate they are.

Did they handle it the wrong way? Is there *anything*, short of having to go to court, that they can do? They're supposed to have a court date sometime next month or so. But if they can shorten the duration and get their lives back NOW, they'd be ever so grateful.


 

Ok.  First, just because the police will not take action in a civil matter does not mean doing so yourself is illegal.  It only means that the police operate under -- supposedly -- a clear standard operating procedure and cannot generally get involved in civil affairs without direction of the courts.

 

What the couple can do is wait for the brother to leave the house and then remove his belongings and change the locks.  Unless the brother has a written agreement / proof of contributing financially, he only has, at best, an oral agreement which, as they say, isn't worth the paper it's written on.

 

Finding himself on the street, he has three basic options:

 

1.  Suck it up and realize the game is over;

2.  Bring a civil action against the couple;

3.  Resort to force to gain reentry. 

 

Option #2 would generally be futile.  Verbal agreements -- if they even exist -- are notoriously difficult to enforce absent throwing truckloads of money down the bottomless legal pit.  and even then.

 

Option #3 would be tricky.  Any attempt to reenter the premises would be a criminal offense ranging from unlawful entry to breaking & entering.  Those in legal possession of the property may use force to defend against such action, may obtain a restraining order and / or usually involve the police.  I would personally recommend refraining from physical violence if at all possible, but that doesn't mean you cannot physically intimidate the individual should he try returning.  If the brother tries to gain access unlawfully, I would call 911 and defend my premises using the minimal amount of force necessary.  Once you have a police report use that to get an emergency restraining order.     

Message 17 of 18
Anonymous
Not applicable

Re: Can I sue for this?

Be very very careful about throwing someone out. Get legal advice for your state.

 

 A boyfriend lived with me, we broke up and he wasn't in any hurry to leave. He never paid rent or any expenses. The police told me he had established residency because he had lived for there 6 months and received mail. If I wanted him out, I had to go to Landlord/Tenant. If I put his stuff on the street, he could get an order AGAINST ME and I could be locked out OF MY OWN HOME (which I own, not rent).

Message Edited by masdeocho on 05-18-2009 09:48 AM
Message 18 of 18
Advertiser Disclosure: The offers that appear on this site are from third party advertisers from whom FICO receives compensation.