cancel
Showing results for 
Search instead for 
Did you mean: 

Never get anything in your name and someone elses

tag
Tazman81
Established Contributor

Never get anything in your name and someone elses

If i went to a dealership and bought a vehicle outright (cashier's check) and the vehicle was placed in my name and a friend's name, do I need to the other party there in order to get a copy of the documents signed at the dealership?  The vehicle was in both our names because she is supposed to be paying me for the vehicle.  Well, she has not been paying for the vehicle, and I just recently found out that the vehicle is no longer titled in my name.  So I've opened a Fraud investigation with the VA DMV, but they are requesting copies of the documents showing that the vehicle was originally in both our names.  I called the dealership and they are saying they have to "check with their operations department to see if it is legal for them to provide me copies of these documents because it has both our names on it".  My initial thought is that with both of us being on the paperwork, then we both are entitle to copies of the document no matter what informationis on them.  We basically "waived" our privacy right to the other person when it comes to these documents since they were signed together.  Anyone else have any thoughts on this?


Current Score: Eq: 823 Tu: 830
Goal Score: Eq: 850 Tu: 850

Wallet: PenFed Power Cash 50k | AMEX Blue Cash (AU) 49.5k | Cap One QSMC 26.5k | AMEX Platinum NPSL | USAA Signature Visa 25k
Message 1 of 16
15 REPLIES 15
haulingthescoreup
Moderator Emerita

Re: Never get anything in your name and someone elses

Yikes, what a mess.

 

My car was titled in both my name and my now-ex DH's name, even though I wrote a check for it out of my personal account. I guess the good ol' boys at the dealership thought that's how it was supposed to be. Smiley Mad

 

Anyway, when I was paying for the yearly registration after I was single, I was able to get the paperwork from the dealer without having DXH along. He signed off on it, and it's in my name, as it should have been all along. My bad for not noticing at the time.

 

Sounds like they're being cautious, not knowing what they're supposed to do, but if they cashed your cashier's check, I would think that that would give you copies of the paperwork!

 

Good luck... Smiley Sad

* Credit is a wonderful servant, but a terrible master. * Who's the boss --you or your credit?
FICO's: EQ 781 - TU 793 - EX 779 (from PSECU) - Done credit hunting; having fun with credit gardening. - EQ 590 on 5/14/2007
Message 2 of 16
GregB
Valued Contributor

Re: Never get anything in your name and someone elses

When more than one person buys a car at a dealership, they normally ask you how you want the title. I would be tempted to say they always ask. This even works this way when it is a married couple. The registration could be in your name OR the other name. It can also be your name AND other name. If it is AND then transfer requires both signatures and fraud would apply if it was transferred without your signature. If it is OR, then either person can transfer. I can't see a case for fraud if the title said your name OR other name.

 

The correct way to do this was for you to be legal owner and the driver to be registered owner. Then legal owner would have to sign off before registered owner could sell. With you as owner using either AND or OR with the other party, you were open to liability if they had an accident or even got a parking ticket.

 

This could be different in other states than mine but I'd be surprised if they weren't similar.

Message 3 of 16
Tazman81
Established Contributor

Re: Never get anything in your name and someone elses

Yup, I am telling you, never ever ever again.  I did this before I learned about this site.  But I thought I was "protecting my interest" by having the title in both of our names.  Well, come to find out, somehow she changed the title out of my name.  But DMV even shows that the title was in both of our names at one time, so I know the original dealership did it correctly, I just want a copy of the paperwork to give to DMV so that they can continue to build their case.  Also, I found out that after she title the vehicle out of my name, she sold it.  So, DMV needs this information so that they can trace where the vehicle is.  I've already been told that if they conclude that she title the vehicle out of my name illegally and sold the vehicle, then I am entitle to go and recover the vehicle no matter who's name its in because the original transaction was done illegally.  So, that is my plan for now, I guess we will see where this goes.  I was just trying to find information on the exact statue/code that would give me the right to obtain a copy of the paperwork from the dealership without her consent since the paperwork is in both of our names.  Ah, guess its more searching of Lexus Nexus for me.


Current Score: Eq: 823 Tu: 830
Goal Score: Eq: 850 Tu: 850

Wallet: PenFed Power Cash 50k | AMEX Blue Cash (AU) 49.5k | Cap One QSMC 26.5k | AMEX Platinum NPSL | USAA Signature Visa 25k
Message 4 of 16
Anonymous
Not applicable

Re: Never get anything in your name and someone elses


@Tazman81 wrote:

If i went to a dealership and bought a vehicle outright (cashier's check) and the vehicle was placed in my name and a friend's name, do I need to the other party there in order to get a copy of the documents signed at the dealership?  The vehicle was in both our names because she is supposed to be paying me for the vehicle.  Well, she has not been paying for the vehicle, and I just recently found out that the vehicle is no longer titled in my name.  So I've opened a Fraud investigation with the VA DMV, but they are requesting copies of the documents showing that the vehicle was originally in both our names.  I called the dealership and they are saying they have to "check with their operations department to see if it is legal for them to provide me copies of these documents because it has both our names on it".  My initial thought is that with both of us being on the paperwork, then we both are entitle to copies of the document no matter what informationis on them.  We basically "waived" our privacy right to the other person when it comes to these documents since they were signed together.  Anyone else have any thoughts on this?

 

...

 

Yup, I am telling you, never ever ever again.  I did this before I learned about this site.  But I thought I was "protecting my interest" by having the title in both of our names.  Well, come to find out, somehow she changed the title out of my name.  But DMV even shows that the title was in both of our names at one time, so I know the original dealership did it correctly, I just want a copy of the paperwork to give to DMV so that they can continue to build their case.  Also, I found out that after she title the vehicle out of my name, she sold it.  So, DMV needs this information so that they can trace where the vehicle is.  I've already been told that if they conclude that she title the vehicle out of my name illegally and sold the vehicle, then I am entitle to go and recover the vehicle no matter who's name its in because the original transaction was done illegally.  So, that is my plan for now, I guess we will see where this goes.  I was just trying to find information on the exact statue/code that would give me the right to obtain a copy of the paperwork from the dealership without her consent since the paperwork is in both of our names.  Ah, guess its more searching of Lexus Nexus for me.


First of all, Taze, I'm really, really sorry to hear how as a good Samaritan you've been scammed.  And I admire how you are handling this.  While the legal side of my brain would be in tune with what you are doing, the military side would be screaming, "Violence, violence, freaking violence!"

 

I could be wrong, but I have never seen anybody with a title with more than one name that had an "and / or" option.  Your state could be different, though.  The DMV should be able to provide you a copy or a transcript of the title.  If you did have an "or" situation and your now-ex-friend properly negotiated the title, probably your only legal course of action would be to sue her.  Hopefully you have documentation of the financial arrangements because that would make it easier.  In fact, I would probably begin a civil action against her without further delay.

 

If, on the other hand, the title was not properly negotiated then I see at least three items that should equate into an orange jumpsuit: Forgery, Fraud & Larceny (in varying degrees).  Your DMV should have copies of the title and supporting documentation used when applying for title and those should be made available to you.  Dealership records, since you were a co-purchaser, should also be made available to you.  If the dealership is claiming privacy violations, they are either stupid or hiding something.  The DMV investigators and / or police can compel production of those documents and you can also compel production if you take civil action against the ex-friend.

 

Once you locate the vehicle* I would exercise caution with self-help recovery.  Assuming you are legally entitled to recover the vehicle, you need to ensure that it is done in a manner that does not create a breach of peace or involving breaking into a premisis.  I would hire a professional repo man.

 

In future cases -- not that there should ever be any! -- have yourself listed as lienholder.    

 

* Do not just take DMV's word that self-help recovery is ok.  There are many instances where a holder in due course or a bona fide purchaser for value can retain legal possession of the otherwise stolen property until you initiate a civil action and prevail.  Consult a VA attorney.  Remember, the goal here is that only she ends up in the orange jumpsuit!

Message 5 of 16
Tazman81
Established Contributor

Re: Never get anything in your name and someone elses

Thanks O6 for the advice.  I will tread down that road with caution and will get the court action to allow me to recover the vehicle.  From my research, I do not think Virginia allows for an "or" clause on the title.  It is titled as joint ownership with rights to the survivor.  I'm still alive so I figure I have rights.  I will keep everyone posted on how things go.  Though I hope no one else would ever have to go through something like this, if they do, I hope my followup and documentation will help.  Thank you again everyone for your advice.  It has been most helpful, and I promise, orange isn't my color!.  Smiley Very Happy


Current Score: Eq: 823 Tu: 830
Goal Score: Eq: 850 Tu: 850

Wallet: PenFed Power Cash 50k | AMEX Blue Cash (AU) 49.5k | Cap One QSMC 26.5k | AMEX Platinum NPSL | USAA Signature Visa 25k
Message 6 of 16
Anonymous
Not applicable

Re: Never get anything in your name and someone elses


@Tazman81 wrote:

Thanks O6 for the advice.  I will tread down that road with caution and will get the court action to allow me to recover the vehicle.  From my research, I do not think Virginia allows for an "or" clause on the title.  It is titled as joint ownership with rights to the survivor.  I'm still alive so I figure I have rights.  I will keep everyone posted on how things go.  Though I hope no one else would ever have to go through something like this, if they do, I hope my followup and documentation will help.  Thank you again everyone for your advice.  It has been most helpful, and I promise, orange isn't my color!.  Smiley Very Happy


Go get 'em, bro, and drive that person right into the ground!  I can't imagine a friend being such a scumbag and pulling a stunt like that.   

Message 7 of 16
GregB
Valued Contributor

Re: Never get anything in your name and someone elses

O6,

I thought your statement about not seeing and/or on titles was strange so I called a friend that owns dealerships in CA and other states. It seems that is CA title and not normal in other states.

 

So my question is that if the title doesn't use AND or OR then it seems likely it would function the same as OR enabling either person to transfer the title. Doesn't that make it necessary to have documentation about a financial arrangement to go after the person that sold the car?

 

Not that I don't like your idea about the violence part. That sound much more satisfying than litigation anyway.

Message 8 of 16
Anonymous
Not applicable

Re: Never get anything in your name and someone elses


@GregB wrote:

O6,

I thought your statement about not seeing and/or on titles was strange so I called a friend that owns dealerships in CA and other states. It seems that is CA title and not normal in other states.

 

So my question is that if the title doesn't use AND or OR then it seems likely it would function the same as OR enabling either person to transfer the title. Doesn't that make it necessary to have documentation about a financial arrangement to go after the person that sold the car?

 

Not that I don't like your idea about the violence part. That sound much more satisfying than litigation anyway.


 

My thinking would be that having two names on the title is the same as "and" which would require both individuals to authorize any transfer or sale, but each state could possibly handle it differently.  If, however, it functioned as an "or" then, yes, it would be very important to have documentation to substantiate the loan.  Even if it operated as an "and" you still be in better shape having documentation.  Hopefully Taze has some type of loan agreement signed by his friend or at least copies of checks and / or other bank records to substantiate that at one point she was making regular payments.

 

It has been a while since I have sold a car, but before my current assignment I transferred title of my car to a relative / business partner in NY.  I am certain that I did not have to notarize my signature on the title, but I distinctly recall that I needed to write a bill of sale which NY DMV requires to assess sales tax on the new owner.  All I did was sign my name to the bottom of a blank sheet of 8 & 1/2 by 11 paper.  If it had to have been notarized, I am sure someone in the office would have done it -- illegal, of course, but attorneys and legal secretaries do it every day. 

 

Even if Taze's ex-friend needed his signature notarized, it is really easy to do -- especially in California.  Of course that means an additional felony, though: Perjury.

 

 

Message 9 of 16
Tazman81
Established Contributor

Re: Never get anything in your name and someone elses

And I do have a document signed by her, that she would be making monthly payments on the 20th of each month.  I also have every payment she has made, and my statements showing the payments.  I have documented every payment she has missed along with my communication to her regarding the missed payments.  I just recently sent her a Recind of Extended Payments and Demand For Full Payment Letter.  That is basically how I learned that she no longer has the vehicle as I told her I was going to come up this weekend to recover the vehicle.  Well, when I call DMV, sure enough, they said that vehicle was no longer titled in my name (in which it was titled in my name in April 2008 when it was purchased).  So that is when they had to start the fraud investigation and when I started doing the investigations on my end as well.  What makes it so bad is that I've known her for YEARS.  She was like a sister to me.  Her family and my family was so close.  But like many on these posts have said, there is a reason that a bank will not loan to a person.  I am hoping to get more information today from DMV and will be going to the dealership to get the paperwork to show that I was on the title (even though DMV has record of it), they want me to provide any "documentation" that I can.  And I was dumb enough to let her hold the original title and everything.  Ah!  Lessons learned the hard way, but they are definitely learned!


Current Score: Eq: 823 Tu: 830
Goal Score: Eq: 850 Tu: 850

Wallet: PenFed Power Cash 50k | AMEX Blue Cash (AU) 49.5k | Cap One QSMC 26.5k | AMEX Platinum NPSL | USAA Signature Visa 25k
Message 10 of 16
Advertiser Disclosure: The offers that appear on this site are from third party advertisers from whom FICO receives compensation.