AU Removal & Dramatic FICO 8 Drop [UPDATE: 7/18/17]

[rebound2014]

[UPDATED w/CURRENT STATS IN A NEW REPLY DOWN BELOW, STILL ON PAGE 1]

Okay... perhaps the term "dramatic" is a bit dramatic in it's own right, but the variance is clearly worth noting (and concerning).

I will apologize in advance for the length.. I'm trying to be as thorough as possible to answer any questions up front..

Quick Background...

Last week, May 29th, I removed myself as an AU on my wifes Citi BB Visa (opened Feb 2014).

I was added to this account in October of 2014 as part of my rebuild after a decade of living a post-divorce cash only lifestyle which resulted in the "I don't have a credit score/file anymore??" scenario. At that time I also added myself to her Kohls and First Premier accounts. This was enough to generate scores and limited history and get me started. Flash forward to June 2015, we purchased 2 new vehicles (Installment loans, co-applicants w/me as the primary since my scores were significantly higher than hers due to no negatives). A couple of days later I opened up my first 2 credit cards... CSP & CapOne QS and began the true journey of rebuilding my own true file.

So, Citibank reports the removal of the AU on the BB card...

EQ removed the account completely and myFICO reported 18 pt drop on June 3rd (I know this is delayed by a couple of days based on monitoring practices)

EX & TU note "Terminated" with $0 Balance while still reporting the history... Today my TU dropped 30 pt divebomb. EX, no change (yet).

Aside from the AU status change on the BB Visa, the ONLY other changes is this...

I am in the process of paying off my Chase cards this month, as well as paying down (considerably) some BT balances on both of my CapOne cards in prep for PenFed & Discover in late July. Both CapOne cards have only seen a continually decreasing balance over the past 6-7 months.

Full discosure, I tend to be a little more liberal with my Chase cards reporting since they also mid-cycle report on $0, so I do have a history of carrying larger balances for a month or two before PIF - and Chase know this. Regardless, in May...

CSP - 1.5+K payment reducing reported bal from 2,784/5K to 1,226/5K (55% util down to 24.5% util) - the remainder of which will be PIF next week.

Marriott - balance increased $445 to 4,013/15K (26.7% Util). - this card will also be PIF before next statement cut on July 1st

However, this still leaves me with an overal util reduction, and despite the slight increase in the MR balance, I don't believe that crossed a new util threshold, correct?

Summary of my Accounts/History:

June 2015

CapOne Auto Financing (Rougly 28K, Terms 72 mo)

SunTrust Installment Loan (Roughly 34K, Terms 72 mo)

CSP @ 5K

CapOne QS @ 4.5K

Feb 2016

Discover Personal Loan 14.5K (sole applicant, Terms 60 mo)

Chase Marriott Rewards 15K

Amex BCP $16.5K (last week I received a CLI to 28K - will report new limit around June 19th)

Venture $8K

March 2016

Lowe's 18K

April 2016

Amex HHonors 6K

Synchrony/Baers 4.8K (local furniture store here in FL)

Inquiries Last 12 mos:  November 25, 2016 (EQ/EX) Chase, attempted CLI on CSP

FORMER AU ACCOUNTS

First Premier $700 (Opened: October 2013, Added as AU: October 2014, Account Closed By Us: March 2016 -- Still reports on all 3 as Closed Account, $0 Bal, AU)

Kohls $300 (Opened: December 2013, Added as AU: October 2014, Removed as AU: January 2017 -- Removed from all 3 CRA's)

Citi BB Visa (Opened: February 2014, Added as AU: October 2014, Removed as AU: May 29, 2017 -- EQ removed completely, EX/TU Report as "Terminated" $0 Bal 5/30/17)

NO BADDIES AT ALL WHATSOEVER.

I will also note that when I last pulled my "subscription reports" here on myFICO back in Feb 2016 it stated for all 3 bureaus that my AAoA was 8 months... the exact amount of time since I took out the 2 auto-loans and 2 cc's and began rebuilding my file as a sole/primary and not an AU on my wifes accounts. This, to me, indicates that Fico 8 did NOT count AU accounts into age... or anything else for that matter??

I haven't pulled my reports here since that time.. I'm on an older subscription w/annual pull -- not the quarterly, so I tend to save them until I need them. So last Octobers available reports will be used next month before PenFed/Discover apps. But I do receive daily SP reports through my EliminateID subscription and the My Privacy Matters subscriptions -- which I stumbled upon here in the forums a few years ago.

In conclusion...

I don't see how the $445 bal increase on my Marriott could have resulted in a 30 pt drop on TU & 18 pt drop on EQ - based on the fact that my balances were actually higher before the CSP reported the -1.5K last week. Which allowed for 2-3 pt bumps on TU/EQ and no change on EX.

However, I will note that my EX did in fact take an 8 pt drop today due to the $445 Marriott bal increase... or perhaps that's also related to the AU removal since we don't always know with certainty what causes the shifts here on myFICO -- especially with TU. So I guess it IS possible that the 30 & 18 pt variances are due to that bal increase?

Everything I have read here in the forums indicates that in older models of FICO the AU's carry a lot of (more) weight, but that there has been no real evidence to indicate that FICO 8 & 9 are as sensitive to AU accounts. 

As of today... my scores are now  EX 726, TU 706, EQ 712

Questions/Thoughts/Concerns??  

And as always, if you manage to read this far... THANK YOU, THANK YOU, THANK YOU for any insight you might be able to provide!!

If one AU account can create such a scoring variance, in my file, then I may need to add myself back to that before hitting up PenFed & Discover next month. 

[rebound2014]

FORGOT TO NOTE:  The BB VISA in question has a 2K limit.

[DollyLama]

These are just my thoughts, if may have affected your AAoA due to the BB Visa being opened in 2014? If it was factored in as that. What I do know for sure is when you removed yourself from each AU account, it was the same as dropping your line of credit, since you had $2000 from it alone that would be factored against your overall utilization and any other accounts that you were an AU on. With you charging a bit more this past month on your own card, it would have raised your overall utilization, or at least individually on this account, which also would ding it. 

Edit to add, if your wife's BB Visa was considered your oldest open credit history, but only by a year, it may not have had that much of an impact. Your scores are not terribly bad, that just utilization alone on cards that you are now holding and responsible for if crossing thresholds of 19% overall utilization, or the best less than 8.99%, they would bounce back. 

[rebound2014]

Thank you for your thoughts, Dolly!! 

Yeah, I had considered that. It just seemed a bit excessive given that balances have been higher in recent months (I looked through all of my recent score alerts on here). I will be interested to see how the PIF on the CSP next week affects it, as well as the CLI on the BCP - an increase of 11.5K since last reporting.

I was already on the fence about removing the AU account since I've read that the older scoring models weigh them much more heavily, and knowing PenFed uses NextGen. The only reason I wanted to pull it was because my wife needed to make a purchase and I didn't want the balance reporting at app time next month.  

Side thought... although I feel like the AAofA wasn't a consideration (due to my last 3B report where it didn't appear to be factored into AAofA) but could the fact that it was an account reporting a $0 balance drive some change? Since now 6/6 revolvers report a balance - Amex Hilton snuck their AF in on me in mid-May.. no score changes around that time of reporting. Of course, that $75 will be PIF next week, too.

I dunno, maybe I'm grabbing at straws, is the change from 6 of 7 accounts vs 6 of 6 accounts reporting a balance a plausible theory? 

[DollyLama]

Yes, very plausible. Especially since the Annual Fee hit on a statement cut, seems even though 0% and under 9%, going zero dollars to a balance of any sort like an AF will suffer a ding. Just in my journey, I have noticed since I too am working on AZEO (the all zero except one reporting less than 8.9 at statement cut), that as I gradually work my way down, carrying on more than 2 cards, overall is around 6% against all revolvers, and the one card individually of the 3 reporting balances is at 29%, I have noticed higher than average points in bumps. Just chipping away a bit at a time, and letting my cards garden in age. 

[rebound2014]

Right on... yeah, I'll be interested to see how these scores fluctuate/recover over the next couple of weeks as PIF's & CLI's report in. And to see if they actually rebound to where I thought they would be by the time all is said & done, or if they come up short due to this most recent ding if it is related to the AU account. Now if it's a utilization issue, then it should all shake out by the time I'm done. We'll see. FTR - I'm not normally too anal about a few pts here and there (granted, 18-30 isn't a "few" in my mind haha) but when I'm planning financial manuevers, I never make a move unless the calculations (data points) project a favorable approval and SL based on my own specs. Can't guarantee I'll get what I "want", but I always do my best to at least get what I "need" haha. 

Thanks again for your thoughts, Dolly... really appreciate the input!

[rebound2014]

Updating (and bumping thread) to ask about my current situation as this has all transpired since the AU Removal... I'll do my best to summarize 

Since the AU Removal my EQ has continued to stay higher than TU & EX.. by a healthy margin.

Recent changes that are reporting (and myFICO has picked up on) since my post in June are as follows:

CLI's:

Amex BCP 16.5K ---> 28K

PIF's:  

     CapOne QS: $0/4.5K

    Synch Baers: $0/4.8K

                 CSP: $0/5K

     Amex Hilton: $0/6K

Chase Marriott:  $0/15K

Other Cards Current Reporting:

     Venture:  $6670/8K*

      Lowe's:  $2970/18K

Amex BCP:  $9550/28K**

*The Venture will report $0 Bal/PIF w/in the next 24-48 hrs.

**The BCP will report >2K balance (7-8% util) w/in the next 48-72 hrs

CURRENT SCORES:  EQ 762, TU 743, EX 736    

myFICO has updated on the SAME info, so far, for all three. <------  [Edited: literally just got a TU alert on here, 15 pt gain to 743 for the QS PIF 3400 --> 0/4.5K]

My question is in looking at the three, who are now all currently reflecting the same exact information/util, and all 3 have 1 inq each w/in the last 12 months. Still no baddies ever.  

So, The ONLY difference in EQ vs EX & TU is the AU Removal -- Completely removed from EQ... and noted as "Terminated" on EX & TU. Meanwhile, my EQ is leaving the other two scores behind in the dust. 

EQ is slaying it compared to the others, which is great for my upcoming PenFed apps, however, I am looking at other products as well that generally pull from EX & TU. I'm wondering if I should dispute the old AU account off TU & EX before my apps in hopes of recovering those points that, I can only assume, are being lost by the "Terminated" status.

Thoughts???

[rmduhon]

AU accounts do get factored in your AAoA. The only thing my nephew has on his reports are AU accounts from me and his AAoA is 15 months with the oldest account being 18 months old. And it's giving him scores in the 720 range. This is in preparation for an auto loan and cards of his own.

[Thomas_Thumb]

---

@rmduhon wrote:
AU accounts do get factored in your AAoA. The only thing my nephew has on his reports are AU accounts from me and his AAoA is 15 months with the oldest account being 18 months old. And it's giving him scores in the 720 range. This is in preparation for an auto loan and cards of his own.

---

An AU account MAY get factored into AAoA on Fico 8. One of DW's cards (which I am AU on) is NOT considered in Fico 8 calculations for me. For some reason the "anti abuse" flags my AU account - perhaps because I don't have an activated AU card. Last time I used the AU card was over 10 years ago and I never activated the re-issued AU card I received 8 years ago, [side note: a 3rd party summary listing for AAoA may be not be the same as the one used by Fico 8 or VantageScore for that matter]

In most cases AU accounts are considered even for Fico 8 and for mortgage Fico models AU cards are always included in calculations.

[rebound2014]

Thomas

I've heard many members reference you on the boards and, based on the post I've personally seen, you seem to know your stuff with scoring. In my current/updated situation, do you believe that the "Terminated" status on TU & EX could be negatively impacting those scores in some fashion compared to EQ where the account is removed completely?