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Posts: 16,633
Registered: ‎12-30-2011

All revolvers zero testing: HELOC, Amex charge, PLOC

[ Edited ]

Starting a new thread as it turned out to be unanticipatedly more interesting than I expected rather than a confirmation of what I already allegedly knew and I caught an Amex charge card datapoint too.  I also had pulled an EX 1B report after my late went away to see if I got anything (didn't) so I had a decent comparison set which I decided to simply follow.  Posting this part of it now before I catch a flight tomorrow.  

 

Also a much larger drop than my last test (-11 or -12 on all 3, this one EX FICO 8 dropped 23, and EQ FICO 8 dropped 18), may have shifted scorecards in that period of time with some of the changes I had (dropped a 30D from April so presumably the pattern lates are now no longer a possible factor in FICO 8 for example, pure conjecture btw, no real way to tease that out at this point in time).

 

Goals: 

1) Test HELOC on all models

2) Test PLOC on all models

3) Test Amex charge card on all models

 

Base Info:

Charge card has a high balance of $11K when we're talking CL on some models

HELOC has a limit of 27K.

PLOC has a limit of 20K

Aggregate revolving discounting the above: 163K 

 

Test Plan:

1) Pay off all non-HELOC/Amex revolvers to zero, HELOC / Amex reporting for datapoint. Done 4/7

2) Pay off Amex, statement date 4/11, only HELOC reporting balance reporting for datapoint (also DCU Beacon 5.0) . Done 4/15

3) Transfer $20 out of the PLOC, reports end of month, HELOC + PLOC reporting for datapoint

 

Analysis: 

FICO 8 all models: Appears to discount both the HELOC and Amex charge card from the number of revolvers with balances calculation.

 

FICO 9 all models: Identical to FICO 8 in behavior

 

FICO 04: Only the one FICO 3 score in this current dataset (I will snag DCU's EQ towards the end of the month) and apparently is counting either the HELOC or the charge card or both.  Prior data from others suggests the charge card isn't factored, which implies the HELOC change wasn't backed into this algorithm as I had understood or size of the HELOC does matter and my 27K isn't enough to get above the hurdle.

 

Update: Appears the HELOC is counting on EX FICO Risk Model v3 which is a FICO 04 algorithm, checking DCU near end of month - Amex now zerod, no change in score.

 

Update 4/28: The HELOC does not appear to factor into EQ Beacon 5.0 based on DCU's provided scores: 693 -> 684, -7 on my dirty scorecard.  That's strange, I wonder if FICO may well have backed it into this model as I had thought they did, and possibly TU 04 too on the premise that they're actually used whereas EX FICO Risk Model v3 made next to zero market penetration as I understand it.

 

Update 4/28 #2: The HELOC is not counting under TU FICO 4 either, looks like it was backed out on both of the FICO 04 models used for mortgage underwriting.

 

FICO 98: Not sure what's going on there, this is a pretty clean dataset pulled within a short time period and just balance changes, it appears more sensitive than FICO 8 to numbers of cards with balances, and can sort of conjecture the magnitude is more on the BC industry option, but I am at a loss as to the AU drop.  To be fair I only care about the base EX FICO 2 score as that's relevant for mortgages and a bunch of CU's, other two scores = whatever.

 

I will update the analysis as more data comes in or if others analyzing the data see something I missed.

 

 

 

Balance Details:

Revolver3/28/174/7/174/15/17
HELOC$8,258.00$5,790.00$5,790.00
Amex Zync$10.00$10.00 $0.00
PLOC$0.00$0.00 $0.00
CSR$294.00$0.00 $0.00
DCU$55.00$0.00 $0.00
ELAN$7.00$0.00 $0.00
Rest$0.00$0.00 $0.00

 

Score Details:

Score3/28/174/7/17Delta4/15/17
EX FICO 8732709-23709
EX FICO 27197234723
EX FICO 36786791679
EX FICO 9768733-35733
     
EX FICO 8 AU729714-15 714
EX FICO 2 AU701694-7 694
EX FICO 9 AU771740-31 740
     
EX FICO 8 BC745729-16729
EX FICO 2 BC70171716717
EX FICO 9 BC759730-29730 

 

Starting Score: EQ 5 561, TU 98 567, EX 2 599 (12/30/11)
Current Score: EQ 5 693, EX 2 719, EQ 8 732, TU 8 732, EX 8 728 (2/01/17)
Goal Score:    EQ 5 750, EX 2 750, EQ 8 800, TU 8 Blah, EX 8 800 (01/01/18)


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Re: All revolvers zero testing: HELOC, Amex charge, PLOC

4/15 Update: Amex -> $0, and literally nothing moved.

 

FICO 9: Discounts both HELOC and Amex charge card (Term = 1 month)

FICO 8: Discounts both HELOC and Amex charge card (Term = 1 month)

FICO 04: EX appears to count the HELOC absolutely, waiting on DCU for EQ Beacon 5.0 at end of month

FICO 98: counts the HELOC as we pretty much all knew.

Starting Score: EQ 5 561, TU 98 567, EX 2 599 (12/30/11)
Current Score: EQ 5 693, EX 2 719, EQ 8 732, TU 8 732, EX 8 728 (2/01/17)
Goal Score:    EQ 5 750, EX 2 750, EQ 8 800, TU 8 Blah, EX 8 800 (01/01/18)


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Re: All revolvers zero testing: HELOC, Amex charge, PLOC

[ Edited ]

Update from 4/14 from CK's Vantage score.

 

Balances: Mortgage, HELOC, $22/500 Alliant loan, and still $10 on the Amex at this point.

 

Changes from last (according to CK, I will verify this eventually): DCU / Elan / Chase -> $0

 

EQ VS 3 +7 to 802 of all things, which is a new record for me.

TU VS 3 +7 to 707 (my file scores really awkwardly on this bureau)

Starting Score: EQ 5 561, TU 98 567, EX 2 599 (12/30/11)
Current Score: EQ 5 693, EX 2 719, EQ 8 732, TU 8 732, EX 8 728 (2/01/17)
Goal Score:    EQ 5 750, EX 2 750, EQ 8 800, TU 8 Blah, EX 8 800 (01/01/18)


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Re: All revolvers zero testing: HELOC, Amex charge, PLOC

4/28 Update: DCU provided EQ FICO 5: 693 -> 686  (-7)

 

Balances: Mortgage, HELOC, $22/500 Alliant loan

 

Wasn't expecting this after the EX FICO 3 data but it doesn't appear that the HELOC is counting under EQ Beacon 5.0.

 

Going to also try zeroing out the HELOC but unfortunately I can't get DCU to report that for another 32ish days, and I have inquiries passing the 1 year mark in May from my aborted refinance and HELOC and that may skew results somewhat though until my 60D or tax lien falls off it shouldn't be substantial.

 

Starting Score: EQ 5 561, TU 98 567, EX 2 599 (12/30/11)
Current Score: EQ 5 693, EX 2 719, EQ 8 732, TU 8 732, EX 8 728 (2/01/17)
Goal Score:    EQ 5 750, EX 2 750, EQ 8 800, TU 8 Blah, EX 8 800 (01/01/18)


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Re: All revolvers zero testing: HELOC, Amex charge, PLOC

[ Edited ]

Well I will be darned.  Bought the 1B report for TU just to see, it's not factored into TU 04 either.

 

4. There are no recent balances on your revolving credit accounts.

 

That's on every model provided except for FICO 8 AU where it's complaining about no recent auto loan activity Cat Tongue

 

Actually, and this one's interesting to me, base FICO 9 reason codes:

 

  • 1. You have a public record and/or collection on your credit report.
    [?]
  • 2. You have a short credit history.
    [?]
  • 3. There are no recent balances on your revolving credit accounts.
    [?]
  • 4. There are no recent balances on your credit cards

 

The heck?  Evidence now of revolving accounts not all being created equally?????  Guess I should've pulled TU as well back when the Amex was reporting but since I don't really care about the bureau, le sigh.  Also interesting it isn't complaining about recently missed payments which TU 8 and TU 4 all industry options are.  FICO 9 BC mentions the late, FICO 9 AU doesn't like the baseline classic score.

 

Scores for future analysis post PLOC report.  Balances = Mortgage, HELOC

 

 4/28/17
TU FICO 8724
TU FICO 4724
TU FICO 9740
  
TU FICO 8 AU737
TU FICO 4 AU734
TU FICO 9 AU743
  
TU FICO 8 BC741
TU FICO 4 BC708
TU FICO 9 BC732

 

 

Starting Score: EQ 5 561, TU 98 567, EX 2 599 (12/30/11)
Current Score: EQ 5 693, EX 2 719, EQ 8 732, TU 8 732, EX 8 728 (2/01/17)
Goal Score:    EQ 5 750, EX 2 750, EQ 8 800, TU 8 Blah, EX 8 800 (01/01/18)


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