Reply
Valued Contributor
Posts: 1,207
Registered: ‎07-18-2009
0

Amex Charge Card Balances Now Impact FICO EQ 08 SCORES Update: TU & EX not affected

[ Edited ]

I've gotten used to EQ Scorewatch not having the slightest affect from my Amex charge balances. The new upgraded score does factor in charge card balances.When the new score cut in FICO dropped 9 points but the utlization, counting Amex, was just over 20%.  After Amex reported this month, with no other reporting, that utilization dropped to 9% and my score recovered all 9 points.  For whatever it's worth, my utilization (w/o Amex) was also 9% in the last EQ 04 score.


I have reestablished credit over the last couple years
so my moniker is, well, rather out of date.

WM Discover $1800, WF Plat 12k, Chase Freedom Siggy18k, Amex Plat (60k H/B), Citi AA EWMC 25k
New Contributor
Posts: 55
Registered: ‎04-14-2013
0

Re: Amex Charge Card Balances Now Impact FICO EQ 08 SCORES

how can it when it doesnt show a CL. If it does as you say and it shows some type of CL  that would awesome as my cl from my amex charge card is really high.

Amex Business Gold NPSL ( 85k internal limit ) - AMEX Everyday $4200 - Chase Freedom $5500 - Discovery it $1300 - BOA Secured $4900 - Cap1 Sparks $1250 - Cap1 Spark Business $1500

2/18/2015
Fico EQ 682 - EX 691 - TU 699
1 boa baddie from 10/08 dying to get this removed
Valued Contributor
Posts: 1,207
Registered: ‎07-18-2009
0

Re: Amex Charge Card Balances Now Impact FICO EQ 08 SCORES


freak4tech wrote:

how can it when it doesnt show a CL. If it does as you say and it shows some type of CL  that would awesome as my cl from my amex charge card is really high.


Credit reports have the highest balance a charge card account has had and this is apparently used in lieu of the CL.

 

I'm a bit surprised becuase I was under the impression account with CLs over 45k or so were not used in FICO scoring. However, up until this model change no account balance variation caused any FICO tick up or down.


I have reestablished credit over the last couple years
so my moniker is, well, rather out of date.

WM Discover $1800, WF Plat 12k, Chase Freedom Siggy18k, Amex Plat (60k H/B), Citi AA EWMC 25k
Moderator
Posts: 27,207
Registered: ‎09-13-2012
0

Re: Amex Charge Card Balances Now Impact FICO EQ 08 SCORES

I haven't noticed a change in my CS and my Amex bal was $2k higher last month and my CS remained the same. 

Valued Contributor
Posts: 1,207
Registered: ‎07-18-2009
0

Re: Amex Charge Card Balances Now Impact FICO EQ 08 SCORES


09Lexie wrote:

I haven't noticed a change in my CS and my Amex bal was $2k higher last month and my CS remained the same. 


Perhaps charge cards are now weighed but differently than revolvers. I have over 2 years of scorewatch FICO records which I've set to trigger on every possible event and my FICOs regularly changed on significant balance variations on all the revolvers but there has never been a FICO change on the Amex even though I get an alert each time.

 

This time it was different with a 9 point increase when my Amex posted 5k instead of 20k and my account had been upgraded just about a week ago.

 

OTOH, I would have expected more than a 9 point drop if utilization had been calculated the same way.  I also played a bit with the FICO simulator and it showed exactly the same 9 point recovery for any charge card balance drop to 12k or less while gradually changing from 757 to 766 between a 20k and 12k balance. No improvement below that. Hard to say what that means but it is odd the simulator on the report a few days ago exactly predicted the score from the balance reduction today.

 

 


I have reestablished credit over the last couple years
so my moniker is, well, rather out of date.

WM Discover $1800, WF Plat 12k, Chase Freedom Siggy18k, Amex Plat (60k H/B), Citi AA EWMC 25k
Moderator Emeritus
Posts: 12,023
Registered: ‎12-30-2011
0

Re: Amex Charge Card Balances Now Impact FICO EQ 08 SCORES


cashnocredit wrote:

09Lexie wrote:

I haven't noticed a change in my CS and my Amex bal was $2k higher last month and my CS remained the same. 


Perhaps charge cards are now weighed but differently than revolvers. I have over 2 years of scorewatch FICO records which I've set to trigger on every possible event and my FICOs regularly changed on significant balance variations on all the revolvers but there has never been a FICO change on the Amex even though I get an alert each time.

 

This time it was different with a 9 point increase when my Amex posted 5k instead of 20k and my account had been upgraded just about a week ago.

 

OTOH, I would have expected more than a 9 point drop if utilization had been calculated the same way.  I also played a bit with the FICO simulator and it showed exactly the same 9 point recovery for any charge card balance drop to 12k or less while gradually changing from 757 to 766 between a 20k and 12k balance. No improvement below that. Hard to say what that means but it is odd the simulator on the report a few days ago exactly predicted the score from the balance reduction today.

 

 


I don't know senor, what other balances out of how many other tradelines did you have reporting at the time?  That is the far more likely culprit as numerous users haven't noticed Amex Charge balances making any difference on Wally or other FICO 8 purveyors.

 

Also the score simulator has some blind spots, I'm willing to bet this is another and it absolutely is not a referencable datapoint Smiley Happy.

Starting Score: EQ 04 561, TU 98 567, EX 98 599 (12/30/11)
Current Score: EQ 04 700, TU 04 731, EX 98 725 (05/24/15)
Goal Score: 700 on EQ 04 (01/01/16)


Take the myFICO Fitness Challenge
Valued Contributor
Posts: 1,207
Registered: ‎07-18-2009
0

Re: Amex Charge Card Balances Now Impact FICO EQ 08 SCORES

[ Edited ]

Revelate wrote:

cashnocredit wrote:

09Lexie wrote:

I haven't noticed a change in my CS and my Amex bal was $2k higher last month and my CS remained the same. 


Perhaps charge cards are now weighed but differently than revolvers. I have over 2 years of scorewatch FICO records which I've set to trigger on every possible event and my FICOs regularly changed on significant balance variations on all the revolvers but there has never been a FICO change on the Amex even though I get an alert each time.

 

This time it was different with a 9 point increase when my Amex posted 5k instead of 20k and my account had been upgraded just about a week ago.

 

OTOH, I would have expected more than a 9 point drop if utilization had been calculated the same way.  I also played a bit with the FICO simulator and it showed exactly the same 9 point recovery for any charge card balance drop to 12k or less while gradually changing from 757 to 766 between a 20k and 12k balance. No improvement below that. Hard to say what that means but it is odd the simulator on the report a few days ago exactly predicted the score from the balance reduction today.

 

 


I don't know senor, what other balances out of how many other tradelines did you have reporting at the time?  That is the far more likely culprit as numerous users haven't noticed Amex Charge balances making any difference on Wally or other FICO 8 purveyors.

 

Also the score simulator has some blind spots, I'm willing to bet this is another and it absolutely is not a referencable datapoint Smiley Happy.


Agree about the simulator. It's pretty meaningless that it happened to match.

 

Like others, I hadn't noticed any change with Wally either but they only report every month so causes of FICO changes are harder to determine.  Because I have Scorewatch set up to report on every balance change and all my LOCs report at slightly different times it is easy to see exactly what changes impact FICO scores. Amex was the only blanace change when the 9 point increase occurred. Even though the balance change reporting causes an event each time, it has never before caused a single point change in over 2 years.

 

 EtoA:

I'll check Wally TU08 scores v the EQ04 past scores to see if there is any evidence of Amex impact. There may or may not be any. Will update.

 

Update:

Checked Wally TU08 scores for the last 12 months. There is no indication that Amex balances had any effect. The changes roughly track EQ04 scores at the same time of the month. Almost all the EQ variation, from a low of 737 to a high of 770 were a result of numbers of accounts with balances at the time. TU08 was only half as sensitive to zero balances and, like EQ04, did not exhibit any changes from Amex balances which were the largest balances by far and varied from 0 to 22k.

 

So I have only a single data point with EQ08 showing a significant change with Amex balances. I'll be looking at this closer in the coming months. Perhaps this is an anomaly related to the Scorewatch transition. Perhaps it is a part of EQ08 and not TU08.  Each CRA has their own customized FICO algorithms and it is possible EQ08 is sensitive to charge card balances while TU08 is not.  Time will tell.


I have reestablished credit over the last couple years
so my moniker is, well, rather out of date.

WM Discover $1800, WF Plat 12k, Chase Freedom Siggy18k, Amex Plat (60k H/B), Citi AA EWMC 25k
Highlighted
Valued Contributor
Posts: 1,692
Registered: ‎01-05-2010
0

Re: Amex Charge Card Balances Now Impact FICO EQ 08 SCORES


cashnocredit wrote:

Credit reports have the highest balance a charge card account has had and this is apparently used in lieu of the CL.

I'm a bit surprised becuase I was under the impression account with CLs over 45k or so were not used in FICO scoring. However, up until this model change no account balance variation caused any FICO tick up or down.

 

Charge cards and ~40K cards are mostly unrelated animals, no?

 

Never underestimate the power of denial
Valued Contributor
Posts: 1,207
Registered: ‎07-18-2009
0

Re: Amex Charge Card Balances Now Impact FICO EQ 08 SCORES

[ Edited ]

More evidence Amex Charge balances impact FICO08.

 

Amex balance reduced from 6k to 2k. SW FICO08 increased from 770 to 778. No other changes.

 

This is odd in that I haven't seen similar Amex impact on Wally 08 FICOs and there was no impact prior to the EQ upgrade to FICO08. But now it is quite significant and is about what I would expect were the Amex card a revolver.

 


I have reestablished credit over the last couple years
so my moniker is, well, rather out of date.

WM Discover $1800, WF Plat 12k, Chase Freedom Siggy18k, Amex Plat (60k H/B), Citi AA EWMC 25k
Moderator Emeritus
Posts: 12,023
Registered: ‎12-30-2011
0

Re: Amex Charge Card Balances Now Impact FICO EQ 08 SCORES

Hrm, still not certain I buy it but does look strange at first blush.

 

Unfortunately I'm not in a place financially where I can really test it with my Zync in any measureable fashion.  

Starting Score: EQ 04 561, TU 98 567, EX 98 599 (12/30/11)
Current Score: EQ 04 700, TU 04 731, EX 98 725 (05/24/15)
Goal Score: 700 on EQ 04 (01/01/16)


Take the myFICO Fitness Challenge
Advertiser Disclosure: The listings that appear on myFICO are from companies from which myFICO receives compensation, which may impact how and where products appear on myFICO (including, for example, the order in which they appear). myFICO does not review or include all companies or all available products.
† Credit cards for FICO Score ranges: The score ranges are guidelines based on actual applicant approvals and having a FICO Score in a particular range does not guarantee you will be approved for credit cards recommended in that range.

Copyright ©2001-2015 Fair Isaac Corporation. All rights reserved.   | Terms of Use | Privacy Policy | Sitemap

IMPORTANT INFORMATION: All FICO® Score products made available on myFICO.com include a FICO® Score 8, along with additional FICO® Score versions. Your lender or insurer may use a different FICO® Score than the versions you receive from myFICO, or another type of credit score altogether. Learn more

FICO, myFICO, Score Watch, The score lenders use, and The Score That Matters are trademarks or registered trademarks of Fair Isaac Corporation. Equifax Credit Report is a trademark of Equifax, Inc. and its affiliated companies. Many factors affect your FICO Score and the interest rates you may receive. Fair Isaac is not a credit repair organization as defined under federal or state law, including the Credit Repair Organizations Act. Fair Isaac does not provide "credit repair" services or advice or assistance regarding "rebuilding" or "improving" your credit record, credit history or credit rating. FTC's website on credit.