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Re: Amex Charge Card Balances Now Impact FICO EQ 08 SCORES


Revelate wrote:

That would be seriously wierd if it were EQ specific on Amex charge card balances affecting score: while the algorithms *are* different bureau to bureau (I've never truly understood that personally but I guess it's a competitive advantage thing), usually the core features of the algorithm (like ignoring collections under $100 in FICO 8) are consistent across all 3.  Infinite universe and all, but I would assume this one is a core feature too.

 

To be fair there's a lot we don't know about FICO, and it's hard to test given the sophistication of the algorithm as my results won't be 1:1 similar with yours in all things given the nature of our respective files, but EQ changing the factor which excludes revolving tradeslines with a Term = 1 month, seems awkward at least.

 

Well speaking of awkard, I only see that Terms = 1 month on EX, both my EQ and TU reports have it listed as an "Open Account" rather than "Revolving Account" which I have on the rest of my credit cards.

 

If you have a EQ report laying around, wouldn't hurt to check to see if it is listed similarly.  As they say, the devil is in the details: why can't the CRA's get on the same page with elements which are reported to all 3 bureaus?  Sigh.


 

I have exactly the same terms reporting for my Amex on EX, EQ, and TU so I have no idea why SW has reported coincident score changes in the direction of balance chnages each of the last 3 months. And I haven't opted for pay over time or any similar thing. It's a pure charge card.

 

What we need are some people with the new SW 08 and an Amex charge card that reports on a different day than other accounts to report whether their FICO score changed when they had a large charge card balance change. I have yet to see anyone report no change and only one other (above) that reported a FICO change. However, people are less inclined to report no change than an unexpected change.

 

 


I have reestablished credit over the last couple years
so my moniker is, well, rather out of date.

WM Discover $1800, WF Plat 12k, Chase Freedom Siggy18k, Amex Plat (60k H/B), Citi AA EWMC 25k
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Re: Amex Charge Card Balances Now Impact FICO EQ 08 SCORES


cashnocredit wrote:

Revelate wrote:

That would be seriously wierd if it were EQ specific on Amex charge card balances affecting score: while the algorithms *are* different bureau to bureau (I've never truly understood that personally but I guess it's a competitive advantage thing), usually the core features of the algorithm (like ignoring collections under $100 in FICO 8) are consistent across all 3.  Infinite universe and all, but I would assume this one is a core feature too.

 

To be fair there's a lot we don't know about FICO, and it's hard to test given the sophistication of the algorithm as my results won't be 1:1 similar with yours in all things given the nature of our respective files, but EQ changing the factor which excludes revolving tradeslines with a Term = 1 month, seems awkward at least.

 

Well speaking of awkard, I only see that Terms = 1 month on EX, both my EQ and TU reports have it listed as an "Open Account" rather than "Revolving Account" which I have on the rest of my credit cards.

 

If you have a EQ report laying around, wouldn't hurt to check to see if it is listed similarly.  As they say, the devil is in the details: why can't the CRA's get on the same page with elements which are reported to all 3 bureaus?  Sigh.


 

I have exactly the same terms reporting for my Amex on EX, EQ, and TU so I have no idea why SW has reported coincident score changes in the direction of balance chnages each of the last 3 months. And I haven't opted for pay over time or any similar thing. It's a pure charge card.

 

What we need are some people with the new SW 08 and an Amex charge card that reports on a different day than other accounts to report whether their FICO score changed when they had a large charge card balance change. I have yet to see anyone report no change and only one other (above) that reported a FICO change. However, people are less inclined to report no change than an unexpected change.

 

 


Yeah, sadly since I got my Fidelity Amex my Zync has been sidelined for anything which fits into the 2%'s limit, and that's most of my expenses.

 

If I get stuck doing quarterly estimated taxes again, that may be above limit and I'll have a shot to test it again, but it's months before that's likely to happen.

Starting Score: EQ 04 561, TU 98 567, EX 98 599 (12/30/11)
Current Score: EQ 04 700, TU 04 731, EX 98 725 (05/24/15)
Goal Score: 700 on EQ 04 (01/01/16)


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Re: Amex Charge Card Balances Now Impact FICO EQ 08 SCORES

[ Edited ]

Forth month in a row. Amex charge card balance decrease from 6k to 2k, EQ FICO up 5 points.


I have reestablished credit over the last couple years
so my moniker is, well, rather out of date.

WM Discover $1800, WF Plat 12k, Chase Freedom Siggy18k, Amex Plat (60k H/B), Citi AA EWMC 25k
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Re: Amex Charge Card Balances Now Impact FICO EQ 08 SCORES

I've switched to the 3 cra package. TU updates are minimal but EQ is reporting on small changes as before. EX has started reporting when significant balance changes occur.

 

To date EQ changes on my Amex charge card alerts continue to produce FICO changes in the same direction as balance changes. However, I have not seen balance changes produce FICO score changes on the EX Amex FICO. Nor has there been any indication of FICO changes on TU though it is much harder to interpret that as I only have the monthly Walmart TU FICO to go by.

 

I'll probably be paying a large bill on my Amex early next month so whether or not Amex affects EX FICO should be clearer at that time. Currently, I expect EX not to be impacted.  That works for me since virtuall all potential creditors here just pull EX and it is consistently my highest FICO score running between 780 and 790.


I have reestablished credit over the last couple years
so my moniker is, well, rather out of date.

WM Discover $1800, WF Plat 12k, Chase Freedom Siggy18k, Amex Plat (60k H/B), Citi AA EWMC 25k
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Verified: Amex Charge Card Balances Now Impact FICO EQ 08 but Not EX FICO 08

[ Edited ]

I recently ran a test since EQ FICO had changed as one would expect from Amex charge card balance changes.

 

I zeroed out all the balances, which were already fairly low, except for the credit card I use frequently for household expenses and Amex.

I had the need to charge a fairly large amount so I chose to do it on Amex

 

I put 40k on Amex which is about 40% overall util counting Amex balance against its high balance. The prior Amex balance was 2k and the other cards about 1k higher. Not factoring in Amex, my UItil was about 3%.

 

When Amex reported:

EQ went down 19 points from 782 to 763.

EX was unchanged at 785.

 

The EQ decrease only makes sense if EQ is counting Amex balances against overall utilization. It is eqully obvious that EX FICO 08 ignores charge card balances.

 

The moderately large drop in EQ is consistent with the smaller drops reported earlier where balances changes were significant but much smaller.

 

At this point I am comfortable saying EQ uses Amex charge balances and EX does not.

 

What remains to be sees is TU FICO 08. This awaits Jan. 15th Wally results which will include the high Amex.

 

Another small piece of info that might be useful to some. Amex reports high balance based on the highest balance over the last 18 months only. My historical high balance was 60k but had dropped to 20k since I haven't used it as intensively as before. It now is 40k of course from this transaction.


I have reestablished credit over the last couple years
so my moniker is, well, rather out of date.

WM Discover $1800, WF Plat 12k, Chase Freedom Siggy18k, Amex Plat (60k H/B), Citi AA EWMC 25k
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Re: Amex Charge Card Balances Now Impact FICO EQ 08 SCORES

Fascinating. Thanks for keeping us posted. Let us know what else you find out.
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Re: Amex Charge Card Balances Now Impact FICO EQ 08 SCORES

I now have enough data reporting from TU (which has been reporting something called "balance changes") along with FICO scores to verify that TU, like EX does not factor in Amex charge card balances for FICO 08 scores.

 

So EQ is somewhat anomolous. Interesting in that EQ FICO 04 scores also did not factor in charge cards but the new 08 score certainly does.


I have reestablished credit over the last couple years
so my moniker is, well, rather out of date.

WM Discover $1800, WF Plat 12k, Chase Freedom Siggy18k, Amex Plat (60k H/B), Citi AA EWMC 25k
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Re: Amex Charge Card Balances Now Impact FICO EQ 08 SCORES

Big time confirm on EQ using Amex charge card balances in FICO 8 calcs.

 

After an experiment letting a 40k charge appear the Jan. balance of 1k was posted. EQ up from 760 to 795.  No other changes in EQ.

 

It's interesting that only EQ's FICO is sensitive to Amex charge balances.


I have reestablished credit over the last couple years
so my moniker is, well, rather out of date.

WM Discover $1800, WF Plat 12k, Chase Freedom Siggy18k, Amex Plat (60k H/B), Citi AA EWMC 25k
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Re: Amex Charge Card Balances Now Impact FICO EQ 08 SCORES

I"m not sure that makes sense to me. Could you elaborate on your logic?

 

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Re: Amex Charge Card Balances Now Impact FICO EQ 08 SCORES


my-own-fico wrote:

I"m not sure that makes sense to me. Could you elaborate on your logic?

 


After SW's EQ switched from FICO 4 to FICO 8 I started seeing the EQ FICO responding to Amex balances. Previously it only responded to my other credit items and totally ignored Amex balances.

 

As an experiment I let a large balance of 40k report on EQ which was much higher than the previously reported high balance. TU and EX didn't tiwitch but EQ dropped from the 780's to 760.

 

At the new year, TU went up to 799, a new high and was clearly ignoring the Amex balance.

 

I paid down Amex and they just reported generating an EQ trigger and FICO which went up to 795.

 

This thread contains the history of how I suspected EQ FICO 8 scores of factoring in Amex charge balances and the evidence now is pretty overwhelming that they do so. It is also clear EX and TU do not factor Amex balances in overall utilization.

 

To summarize, Amex Charge card balances are included in overall utilization only in EQ's FICO 8 but not in other CRA's FICO 8 scores and not in any FICO 04 which is critical for mortgages.


I have reestablished credit over the last couple years
so my moniker is, well, rather out of date.

WM Discover $1800, WF Plat 12k, Chase Freedom Siggy18k, Amex Plat (60k H/B), Citi AA EWMC 25k
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