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Member
Greenbean
Posts: 5
Registered: ‎04-20-2008

Are lenders actually using the VantageScore model?

[ Edited ]
While surfing the web, I came across a Vantage / Fico score converter. Having pulled my Fico scores yesterday I decided to to run my scores through and see what my Vantage score would be. Then I pulled my Vantage scores from EX and TU. The converter said with Fico scores of 722(EX) and 703(TU) my Vantage score should be around 865 and 840 respectively. When I pulled the actual Vantage scores EX was 748 while TU was 759 which makes me grade "C". (Stay away from the converters. They do not work.)
 
My question is...are lenders actually using the Vantage scoring model or are they still using the Fico model? I ask this because I am getting ready to buy a house and it would be really nice to get an idea of which scoring standard most creditors are using.
 


Message Edited by Greenbean on 04-20-2008 07:04 PM

Message Edited by Greenbean on 04-20-2008 07:07 PM
Mega Contributor
RobertEG
Posts: 17,456
Registered: ‎03-19-2007

Re: Are lenders actually using the VantageScore model?

The simple answer is that apples are not oranges, and can cannot be converted to oranges. 
They are separate algorithms, with different weightings..So any "converter" is flawed by its very nature.  Useless.
As for what lenders use, FairIsaac states that around 80% of lenders use FICO, and most mortgage web sites I have browsed seem to confirm their use of FICO.  The ony way to know for sure is to ask the lendor....
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Epic Contributor
haulingthescoreup
Posts: 28,115
Registered: ‎04-01-2007

Re: Are lenders actually using the VantageScore model?

I have read that some lenders are pulling Vantage scores, but that they are also pulling FICO scores, probably to get a feel for how well (if at all) they agree. Seems like I read also that the Vantage scores are practically being given away, in an attempt to get somebody, anybody to use them.
* Credit is a wonderful servant, but a terrible master. * Who's the boss --you or your credit?
FICO's: EQ 781 - TU 793 - EX 779 (from PSECU) - Done credit hunting; having fun with credit gardening. - EQ 590 on 5/14/2007
Mega Contributor
RobertEG
Posts: 17,456
Registered: ‎03-19-2007

Re: Are lenders actually using the VantageScore model?

[ Edited ]
Even the scoring Goliath, FairIsaac, has taken a few pebbles on the forehead in attempting to release new and improved models.  They tried  a new FICO back about five years ago that did not fly.  They also released an Enhanced Fico back in 2004 that was supposed to be tailored to those with shorter credit histories, and again it did not capture the market.  Now the impending FICO08 is much bally-hooed, but its acceptance by the market is totally untested.  Advantage is not alone in the old maid parlor of "better" but not accepted scoring models.  Traditional FICO seems to be the industry choice right now, which lead to tremendous confusion amongt consumers.  Even in the current market, FICO itself releases one score based on its generic consumer algorithm, which is what you get on myFICO.  But it also releases different algorithms to each of the three CRAs, which are FICO scores because they are used under license by in with use of FairIsaac software, but they are not even produced using the same algorithm. Each CRA requests and purchases their preferred flavor of scoring.   It is a mess.
Then we have mortage based scores, auto based scores, and the advertised, but not yet released, medical based scores.
Tallking about the difference between FICOs and FAKOs is hard enough, but the difference between the myriad of even FICOs becomes numbing.
This forum is an excellent source of understanding from those who know the ins and outs of the consistent themes between all of these scoring algorithms, which is the best we can hope for.  But to ask for advice on the precise affect of any action on actual FICO score, or to offer reasons why scores from different CRAs or score providers are different, is an impossibility to answer.


Message Edited by RobertEG on 04-20-2008 08:04 PM

Message Edited by RobertEG on 04-20-2008 08:06 PM
Established Member
whatamess
Posts: 23
Registered: ‎05-13-2012

Re: Are lenders actually using the VantageScore model?

[ Edited ]

Its all a bunch of bullshux.. One creditor says a 620(fico score) is good or fair, and another says its below average or bad! And then you have your vantage score.. If you're not paying attention to the letter grade versus the score, You may go out and apply for credit or a loan with the confidence of knowing "I got this" just to be denied and embarrased! This system is wayyyy too loose and confusing! The vantage score model consist of all three credit reporting bureaus, And fico only consist of two! **bleep** is that?? And who goes by what? My scores on vantage all add up to a "C", with TU being closer to a "B"! My fico score with TU is good, but not excellent! And the other score with one of the big "E"s is a low 620! But some will say a 620 is a decent score, just not for the best interest rates..  There should be ONE standard that everyone has to go by when considering credit. Im not looking for a 40 or $50,000 car loan, nor a 4 or $500,000 mortgage loan.. I just want to know exactly where I stand with my credit.. to me thats priceless! Sorry y'all... I know my comments are'nt helpful.. Im just blowing off steam!:smileyfrustrated:

Handle ya bidness, It pays!
Established Contributor
thankfulheart
Posts: 619
Registered: ‎09-26-2011

Re: Are lenders actually using the VantageScore model?

Unfortunately "one standard" is not part of a free market economy.  Mind you, I agree that there should absolutely be transparency in the system and I certainly should have the same access to the same scores a lender uses without suffering a hard inquiry for it.  But, that's not how the game is played, so if one is to be successful, one needs to learn the rules of the game.  

 

I'm in the midst of gearing up for a mortgage app. The Big 3 are what I am concerned about. EQ from MyFCIO is spot on, same report/score the lender uses.  TU from MyFICO is an older version, and, of course, EX scores from anywhere are for entertainment purposes only.  My lender has never said anything about using a VanatgeScore, so IMO, those are also "entertainment" scores.  I watch my reports like a hawk (use USAA credit monitoring) and keep my finger on the EQ pulse with ScoreWatch from here.  I'm trying to keep EQ my low score so hopefully no surprises when I finally go to apply.

 

As far as the actual scores, it's important to look at the dates on any posts or articles you read.  "Back in the day", "subprime" could have been in the low 600s, but from my recent research anywhere from 660-680-700 is the "Prime Line", depending on the lender.  Sure, a 620 mid-score might get you a mortgage, but that's still not considered "prime" in terms of credit consumption.  

 

Most of all, remember that scores are fluid and the best any of us can do is pay our bills on time, keep utilization low, clean up best we can, and let time work her magic.

 

Starting Score: 10/1/2011 EQ 568 TU 593
Current Score: EQ 664 TU 700 EX 701 (FAKO)

Moderator
Revelate
Posts: 8,318
Registered: ‎12-30-2011

Re: Are lenders actually using the VantageScore model?

Mortgage is absolutely specific: and unless you are applying for jumbo loans, the entirety of them in terms of which to use are dictated by the GSE's.

 

Fair Issan '04 (it's various names, Beacon 5.0 from EQ, EX Transrisk v2 I think, not sure on TU's specific name) from TU, EQ, EX.

 

This is mandated because everyone currently packages up their loans and dumps them on Fannie and Freddie; there is absolutely no room to use any alternate scores as the GSE's will reject the loan.

 

Re: Vantage scores, from reading this forum over the last few months, Alliant CU may be using Vantage for their offerings, but that's the only one I've seen posted that actually had a Vantage score used for the approval terms / denial rationale.  Every other lender has been either straight FICO (or some industry option thereof), or their own custom score (vis a vis Walmart).

Starting Score: EQ 561, TU 567, EX 599* (12/30/11, EX lender pull 12/29/11)
Current Score: EQ 04 679, EQ 8 708, TU 711, EX 702* (07/14/14, EX older)
Goal Score: 700 on EQ '04 (01/01/15)


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pizzadude
Posts: 8,631
Registered: ‎01-28-2010

Re: Are lenders actually using the VantageScore model?

 

Chase also uses Vantage score for some of their CC products, although they do not use it consistantly or exclusively.   That's the only other lender that I'm aware of that uses it.

March2010 FICO® ~ 695 TU, 653 EQ, 697 EX
Moderator
Revelate
Posts: 8,318
Registered: ‎12-30-2011

Re: Are lenders actually using the VantageScore model?

[ Edited ]

pizzadude wrote:

 

Chase also uses Vantage score for some of their CC products, although they do not use it consistantly or exclusively.   That's the only other lender that I'm aware of that uses it.


Curious, do you know which ones?  It probably doesn't matter in my case but I've noticed that relative score wise (how I rate to the rest of humanity statistically) my VS is markedly above any of my FICO's even from TU which is my worst report from a stupid parketing ticket collection... and for some reason it's pushing near average credit, where my FICO scores are absolutely suck.  I wouldn't take the wager expecting I'd get a VS pull, but it'd be interesting to know regardless for when I do try for a Chase product: which is nearly guarunteed just how many years from now is the question.

 

I honestly wouldn't expect it from any national lender and I'm pretty surprised by Chase's openly testing it though I suppose any open market is a good thing.

 

 

Starting Score: EQ 561, TU 567, EX 599* (12/30/11, EX lender pull 12/29/11)
Current Score: EQ 04 679, EQ 8 708, TU 711, EX 702* (07/14/14, EX older)
Goal Score: 700 on EQ '04 (01/01/15)


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Valued Contributor
Crashem
Posts: 3,098
Registered: ‎01-26-2012

Re: Are lenders actually using the VantageScore model?

Revelate is right about why there is such stickiness for FICO 04 scoring models.  The packaging of mortgage debt requires everyone to use consistent credit scoring model.  Going to be a long time before another model takes over even if it is another scoring model from FICO.

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